A day in the life of a hunter

To PvP or not to PvP

First off let me say this, I am glad that Blizzard revamped the PvP system awhile back to allow for other servers to link together but the way the current system is set up might be in need of a few changes. Let me explain...

Years back before the BC expansion, I started doing BG's when I hit 60 on my alliance warrior and hunter. Other than the painfully long wait times it was pretty fun. You could actually get in on a BG and not get your ass handed to you by some nub in a top of the line PvP gear set. Back then to get the gear you had to get the rank and to get the rank you had to do the work for it.

A buddy of mine made GM and it took him months of grinding in BG's to get ranked and it was not about turtling and mooching the points. He had to actually know what he was doing. The way the system is now, anyone can obtain the best BG gear with simply cashing in points without really being good or knowing what they are doing...

It's pretty simple. Make a 19,29,39 whatever twink and run them in every BG you can get in. Chances are you will be geared pretty good if not great and because there is a cap on the gear at the lower lvl's it's not hard to get the stuff, so unless everyone else is doing this too (which only about 10% maybe 20% of the people playing do this) you can pretty much just set back for a few weeks or a month and soak up the honor points.

In my case (just using this as an example) I would love to have the Merciless Gladiator's Pursuit set which was the Arena Season 2 Set. Now you can get this with 65250 honor points and marks. Yes I know there is better out there and yes I know some people have actually worked their asses of in the arena to get this. This is just an example.

So what does that mean? Well it's pretty simple. Go set in on any and every BG you can, don't put any effort in it or try to understand the strategy behind it. Focus on trying to kill as many people as you can for the honor points, forget about actually winning (and collecting more honor points) and your one mark.

Do the math, for next to no effort you can obtain a really good armor set that someone like myself wants to get from actually winning. The armor set's use to be a way to show your skill and dedication, now they are just there for anyone to have. Now don't get me wrong, I know you have to put forth some effort to get 65250 honor points but lets be realistic here, it's not really that hard if you want to go and kill anyone you see for the honor points.

Ok, so how did I come to the conclusion that the PvP system is out of whack? Well, I started going to BG's a few weeks ago when I hit 70 so I could obtain better gear for raiding with my guild. My main reason for going after the PvP gear for raiding was the stats on the PvP gear is 10 times better than the stuff I have now and would help me and the guild while we where in the raids so we could actually do the end game instances and I could hopefully get the better raiding gear from the drops. Heading into the end game instances in dropped or quest reward green's and blue's is suicide at best and your not really helping the raid group the way you should with DPS, health if you get aggro, ect....

So I started back to BG's after almost 2 years of being gone (I took a break from playing). As I was trudging along through AV,AB and WSG I came to the sad realization that I stood a better chance in the end game instances than I did in these BG's full of nubs with full PvP gear sets. I use the word nub because I encountered more gnome rouges that had no idea how to play the class and when confronted with someone who could actually PvP either ran away or relied on other players to pull them out of trouble. I call them SAP gnomes because that's pretty much all they are good for. Killing anyone geared to the teeth with 12k of HP and over 10k of armor is next to impossible alone if your wearing the best you can get from quest rewards, AH buys or just standard drops.

And while there is no cure for stupid and Blizzard has no control over how someone plays, they should find a way to weed out the so called twinks from the general population. If I went into one more BG and saw a squishy wearing a full set of greens running the flag or a fully geared warrior running off to get an easy honor kill or a revenge kill instead of protecting an asset I was going to put my fist through my monitor.

As an example of what I encountered in one WSG (which pretty much sums up what they all ended up like). This is the way it went down...

Zone in


Chat: Buffs PLZ


spam buffing starts


Everyone starts inspecting everyone else


A few lvl 65, 66 and 67's with a mix of blues and greens


I say: Ok, I'll go on D. Need at least one or two to stay and help


No one says anything


I say: Another hunter (we have 4 in the group) and a pally or shammy plz stay here on D


No one says anything


Gate drops, WSG starts and the FR clears out leaving me and my pet alone


I drop a trap at the flag, turn on track human, put my pet on aggressive and wait...

BG map shows everyone in the middle of the field fighting and dieing and 1 minute into the BG I see on my map 4 alliance running up the tunnel and just as I'm about to say in raid chat we have INC, sap, I'm asleep and down to half health. My pet aggro's and starts tearing into this SAP gnome rouge who then runs away. Here comes the rest of them. Mage, warrior, pally and priest.


I am now dead.


Our flag has been picked up and on it's way back to their base.


This process repeats it's self again at which point I realize no one has made any attempt at getting their flag so I head over to grab it. Nope, they are using their heads and have 3 on D and I never even made it to the flag.


They grabbed our flag for the third time and then turtled it while my group ran head long into them dieing and giving them free honor points. Even after I said many times in raid to stop and meet up at our base so that we could protect ourselves and maybe they would get bored and just cap. I ended up leaving the BG after almost 5 minutes of this because I was not going to just give them my honor points and I was not going to go hide someplace and wait for the alliance to finally say enough and cap the flag so I could get my one mark and honor points. Besides the fact that they actually ran our flag back into our flag room and then sat there killing us as we tried to take it back. Sad, very sad...

Now I realize that this sounds like a rant about the poor team work on the part of the Horde on my server and the shear lack of common sense (and I guess to a point it is) but it's more a rant about how someone can get the gear and then dominate. Really not earning said gear in my opinion. What's next, Legendary weapons if you turn in enough bolts of cloth? (Ok, I know that's a bit extreme).

If anyone has read this far I'm sure your saying, then stop bitching and go to the BG's and do like everyone else; run around with no goal in mind, loose, get your honor points and marks no matter what, and get your gear.

I would, but unlike a lot of people, I get satisfaction from earning what I have and to me getting the higher level PvP gear is something that should be earned. I look at it now as I look at a simple gray item that drops off a trash mob. Anyone can get it. I admire the people I see who are wearing the end game raiding gear because there is no mistake that it took skill and knowledge to get it. Even if they kind of suck they still can not simply set back and let everyone else around them do all the work. It requires team work.

So what do I think needs to be done? Not that anyone really cares what I think, but since you read this far and you asked I'll tell you. I think Blizzard needs to put some kind of check and balance in the PvP area of the game. In my opinion, the difference from say a level 61 to a level 70 is just too extreme with the way the system is now allowing anyone to "purchase" the high level gear at 70 with nothing more than points and marks. The way it use to be was if you entered a BG as say a level 62 you stood a chance because not everyone was wearing the best gear sets unless they earned them and not everyone had the conviction, skill or drive to meet the challenge to be ranked in order to get the gear. Sure you ran into people that had good raiding gear on but you still stood half a chance.

In my opinion, they need to cut the level range in half. Instead of say a 61 getting into a BG that is mostly geared out 70's make it 61 to 65 and 66 to 70. I know better than to enter a BG at 61, 62, 63 or even 66. I am only going to hinder the others who are 70 and taking up a spot that another 70 could be in and help them to win. I am like a lot of other people. I see a 65 standing there and I want to kill them and teach them a lesson. I go out of my way to find them again and again because that is easy honor kill and I know I can blow right through them on my way to an objective. So I would never enter a BG at an odd level simply to be a target for the other side and taking up a needed spot on our side.

The BG's should also be set up in different categories or brackets based on honor. Someone with 2000 honor has no business being in a BG with people who have earned a life time of 200k plus honor. Even if they mooched half that honor they are still far more superior to the guy with 2000 honor just simply because of the gear they have on not to mention they more than likely know more about the PvP aspect of the game than the guy with 2000 honor (assuming the guy with 2000 honor never PvP'ed before).

My idea is to have an honor ranked system where you need to meet a certain requirement to get in a particular BG, kind of like the level system is now. You need to be in a certain range of honor points to get in a certain BG. Say, for example a difference of plus or minus 2000 honor points either way. As an example: A level 65 in the points bracket of 2000 points to 3999 points. You are going up against people 61 to 65 that are geared pretty much like you and have the same ability to get the armor to survive more than 2 hits. Then from say 4000 to 5999 you are in the next category and so on until you hit 100k honor for example. After 100k honor then it's just a matter of going from there to catch everyone else in the 100k plus honor bracket and your starting out with pretty decent gear in that points bracket.

At any rate, that is my rant about the imbalance in the PvP system as I see it and my ideas to change it and make it more fun for someone who has never done it before and make those of us that have PvP'ed in the past want to do it again when we are starting a new toon or what ever.

Oh, and one last thing, this topic is named, "To PvP or not to PvP". My answer is no. I will survive on my quest reward greens and blues until I can get good upgrades from dungeon drops. It will take me longer to do that than if I was to PvP but I know I will have earned my gear and didn't have to die to a twinked out gnome that really can't fight but they simply have enough armor and HP to get away from me so their friends can save them. The stress of the stupidity I see in the BG's and lack of organization to me is just not worth the reward.

Agree, disagree, what ever... Just my two cents and I know it's only worth a cent and a half so thanks for reading my ramblings and happy hunting.

And one last thing, if anyone was offended by me saying "SAP gnomes", "Mooches" or "stupid people in BG's" then your the ones I was talking about...

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  • Tue, Mar 17 2009 3:14 PM ()

    HUNTERJAXE 4 BG PRESIDENT!!! Man I hate BG's somedays but I still do them. Not only for the points but I like killing ANY class higher than me, better geared than me and pissing them off. So what your Twinked out... I'm still gonna kill you! When i was 64 I killed a Twink Warrior Horde like 10 times before he wouldn't even come my way. That doesn't happen all the time but it feels good when you kick a( so-called "Twink") butt or just dealing damage to the opposition. Mostly I try to enjoy the fight when there's no organization for the battle and it helps keep my frustration level low.

  • slyl said 
    Fri, Sep 26 2008 10:26 PM ()

    lol why run from a hunter?? as a mage i get close and in their face (not supposed to with a mage i know) but it stops their "big dps" from ranged attacks :) even with crap gear a hunter still hits hard...very very hard

  • Nikeyta said 
    Mon, Aug 11 2008 9:13 PM ()

    Bravo Bravo, I know as a Hunter, and as someone who goes in and works their butt off ,and just now starting to s2 gear what you are talking about,when I go in and they have better gear, one they come at me because of that , and two because I am a Hunter , I dont think anyone ever explained to the rest of the classes ,Hunters can NOT melee , so if your running bu and they are getting their butts handed to them stop and help them out

  • Mon, Aug 11 2008 9:13 PM ()

    Wow this is SOOOOO true! I have had almost the same experience, except I'm lvl 22 now... I agree on every point you have made, and think something should be done. PS- I hate SAP gnomes

  • slyl said 
    Mon, Aug 11 2008 9:13 PM ()

    man it took me 2 days to get my S2 staff (27k honor 40 AV marks)...
    but at that point i had 5/5 S2 armor...now the armor part...that was about a month and a half of grinding BG's now that was only because of EXACTLY and i mean EXACTLY what you said i got piled about...wait i can't count that high but i am guessing you know it is a high figure and as a mage it is even harder no pet next to no armor and low hp :( but in saying that if you go farm marks and not worry about honor eventually you'll have enough marks to gain 314 extra honor ontop of your loss/win honor bonus (the repeatable quest for great honor located in any major city by the battlemasters) i am hoping that little tip will help you in your journey's to becoming a great geared hunter :)

  • Mon, Aug 11 2008 9:13 PM ()

    Your spot on. Being a warlock with very little armor, i find myself sap ganked by two rogues and a warrior or two all the time. Thats partly the way a bg works, there is always reinforcements waiting for the half dead enemy to present himself. All you have to do is look for the guy who just got out of the fight and nuke him, easy kill. Just about all rogues play this way. I get sapped by a rogue a few times till the diminishing returns makes me immune, another enemy shows up and the rogue waits till im half dead and cheap shots (the name rings true) and runs circles around me using slice and dice then a kidney shot if i actually survive the initial stun. PvP is nothing more than a stun contest, SAP gnomes being the most prevalent stunners. Pisses me off to be killed by a midget running circles thinking he's actually good.

  • Mon, Aug 11 2008 9:13 PM ()

    On a further note, i was browsing through a few sites and stumbled upon a mod. I'll post the summary:

    Compatible with all patches
    The Anti-afk matches with all patches, including the latest update. It's a program, not an add-on.
    It plays for you

    The program does everything automatically and leaves the impression that a real player is controlling the character. Attack of ennemies, buff and bandage application of defence of a camp... no one can assume that a program is playing for you !

    Maybe alot of people use this. I would easily believe it as i play horde and sometimes i think everyone is either playing one handed and blinfolded or are half retarded.

  • Mon, Aug 11 2008 9:13 PM ()

    Just an update for anyone who cares...

    After setting down and thinking real hard about this, I started back in the PvP aspect of the game. I am trying very hard not to let it get to me because I really want to get better gear. After almost dieing a horrible death many times over in a few raids because the gear I have on is just a step above crap, I am going to WORK at getting my PvP set... I put emphasis on the word WORK because that what I have to do to get to where I want to be.

    It's going to be tough though after trying to grind out the 50 AB marks I need for the shoulders and chest. I ran 15 today and we won 1, yes that's right, 1, number one, the next number after zero. At this rate I only have to suffer through 32 more losses unless we get lucky and win another one in there some place.

    Come on people, use your heads. We are the Horde. I use to remember the Horde being bad ass mofo's in BG's when I was on the other side years ago.

    I'm off for now and thanks for the comments. :)

  • Arano said 
    Mon, Aug 11 2008 9:13 PM ()

    Good post mate. very good.
    THe problem with bg's and pvp in general as I see it, is that it has become like end game raiding. Meaning that it is only for people with gear level around s2. if you just turen level 70 or are 65 as you then pvp in av is like going for Illidan on your first raid. you will lack the gear. maybe not the skill but the gear.
    I think blizzard killed pvp when they made you buy s1 for honor. then the stone just started to roll. Back in the days pvp was for everybody. now it is for people with some s2 and the rest is free honor kill. Pvp has like most things in wow started to feel like grinding.
    on a side note you can't really pvp in av. most of av is pve and on a normal av if you stick with the rest you don't meet any other players unless you are 20 vs. 2.

  • hagagaga said 
    Mon, Aug 11 2008 9:13 PM ()

    starting around 60, the twink gnomes are usually called "mains"

  • Mon, Aug 11 2008 9:13 PM ()

    For those of us who take some pride in PvP it is difficult not to agree with you. I like your idea about grouping teams in the BGs based on lifetime honor, since it would (1) theoretically enhance the quality of your teammates and (2) potentially enhance the quality of your opponents, too. It is enjoyable to fight against opposing faction members who take pride in themselves too; being able to run some quality PvP without being screwed by SAP gnomes would be fantastic.
    There have been times that I have enjoyed the challenge of fighting a skilled player so much that I have made a temp toon on his or her server just to take the time to tell them that they were good enough to warrant such attention. Most of said people are serious PvP'ers like myself and I think they appreciate that sort of thing. If Blizzard could group more of us in the BGs together like that, the experience would be much better.
    The imbalance in PvP could be solved but it would require Blizzard to do some serious filtering. Here's hoping that they might include some better BG tiers in the expansion.

  • Mon, Aug 11 2008 9:13 PM ()

    Couldn't agree with you more!! I'm a 70 affliction warlock and desperately trying to get better gear to raid with starting with the PvP set. The '2 hits you're dead' thing is so infinitely frustrating that it makes me want to smash something and it all comes down to, as you say, mismatching entrants into the BGs. My gear is mostly blue with 2 epics and invariably I just get hammered by over-geared sappers. Blizzard does need to overhaul the system and I find your suggestions to be very well thought out and think they would make the PvP system fairer and infinitely more enjoyable. Well done.

  • Ardman said 
    Mon, Aug 11 2008 9:13 PM ()

    This is why I dont pvp . It just sucks . I have better things to do all day than corpse run and wonder at the stupidity of the "just lose its quicker set" .

    For gearing I went for the starter pvp set from rep and built it up with instance drops . Once it was at a decent level I started in on heros for badge loot .

    I have one pvp off hand dagger and it nearly scarred my mind having to spend time in the bg's . I have no wish to even try for the main hand lol .

  • Mon, Aug 11 2008 9:13 PM ()

    Funny thing is, on my server (Germany, Antonidas) the alliance acts the same way as you describe and the horde is perfectly organized, obviously playing with teamspeak.
    I played in bg's daily for 3 months, starting because I wanted good weapons for my GNOME ROGUE. :-)
    In those first days I had no idea of the tactics in AV, AB etc. But after a week I had learned from those few players that actually write something and tell the others what to do - although most of the others seem to no be able to read, are chinese or whatever, because they never answer or do what they are told to.

    Then after weeks went on, I realized that whenever I go into a BG, may it be early in the morning or late in the evening, most of the other players don't seem to have an idea of how to play in the BG's. They just run around alone and try to win againts 3 or 4 horde players. They never write anything and when other players tell them that they should play together as a team all that comes back is "shut up, you noob."

    On the rare occasions when I win a BG there are always players that talk to each other, announce incoming horde players, tell the others where to attack etc. It is really not complicated to win in AV, AB or WSG or even EotS, but it is very depressing playing for months and still mainly seeing complete noobs running around like chicken, reacting to nothing.

    I guess the main reason is that most of the BG players are kids. They have to follow orders at home and in school and they don't give a *** what others tell them when they are playing. They never worked together in teams in RL and so all they want is to show how "strong" they are by running into opponents trying to kill them 1on1. They remember me of the typical Counterstrike gamer.

    But although it made me mad I managed to get the gear I wanted:
    http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Antonidas&n=Minnikus

    After that I stopped playing BG and prefer HC dungeons now.

  • Mon, Aug 11 2008 9:13 PM ()

    I have to agree with you also. The PVP system should be overhauled, and go back to earning ranks to get gear. I used to play on Hydraxis, and there was one of your SAP Gnomes, at lvl 19 she had 25K honor. If these people(kids) had to earn the gear, they would leave the PVP tp the rue PVPr's. Thats why I went to the PVP server, there at least you have to earn everything, in game world and BG land. I also have to say AMEN to your lets not gaurd the flag mentality. Than as the flag gets taken those same nubs are say in chat" Good Job D". So to your statement, PVP get the gear and enjoy the game.

  • Mon, Aug 11 2008 9:13 PM ()

    I thought I was alone in my misery of failing to be successful at BG'ing, and now, after reading the main article, along with all the posts, I feel relieved that I'm not just a loser, that I'm a victim of trying to do a job the correct way and running into the 'too well-known' nemesis of every BG, the over-armoured mindless SAP Rogue Twink, using me as his latest honor point bonus target. I've wondered why I was always unsuccessful at helping my team win or even survive a BG, no matter what level I was. And, I've tried going into a BG at the high end of the stats (ie: Level 29 in a 20 to 29 BG) with no more success than when I was at the low end. I've felt like I was just a born loser at BG's no matter what level I was. Now, I see that I'm in honorable company in almost every BG that I've been in. We're the one's who've given up communicating with each other because nobody responds anyway, and then the Rogue comes and I'm waking up in a cemetary, with my 'loser' syndrome freshly burned into my mind, and wondering what I can do different to avoid that Rogue. Kudos to the Author, and just so ya know, I play for the Alliance, so you're not alone because you play Horde, the Alliance faction fairs no better when it comes to leadership and commitment to authenticism. In my humble opinion, we're ALL losers on this bus, til Blizz makes it right.

  • Drawgon said 
    Mon, Aug 11 2008 9:13 PM ()

    I have to say I agree with you, and i bring great news.

    In Wrath of the Lich King, season sets will not be purchaseable for honor, arena points is required.
    And hopefull Some rating atleast.

    If you don't love these news, you are probably one of those "Sap gnomes", "Mooches" or stupid people in BG's."

    Rejoice friends, PvP might get alittle balanced again.

  • Scrypps said 
    Mon, Aug 11 2008 9:13 PM ()

    Its just alliance mostly, the skill difference between alliance and horde on the two groups I play in is vast. Also, I don't see a difference between GM/HWL gear grinding and S1/S2 gear grinding, you can get the gear the same way, with honor points, and you can do it slow by losing or fast by winning.

    Blizzard shoudl make BGs difficult for sucky people to play in, but right now I see your main mistake is playing alliance, not that there is an inherent difference between the faction design, but that terribad players roll alliance.

  • Mon, Aug 11 2008 9:13 PM ()

    The one thing I am finding even harder to deal with than being "out gunned" by over geared opponents is the over geared team mates that think because they have 12k+ HP unbuffed that the rest of us who are trying to grind out the honor so we too can have good gear are all a bunch of noobs who are not able to do anything without their superior skill and knowledge.

    It really pisses me off to see someone look down on a person from a non PvP server or make fun of them because they are not fully geared for PvP. At some point, they too where the "noob" in the BG wearing a mix of blue's and greens doing the best they could with what they had. I know most of the people who scream noob in BG chat and talk *** are just insecure kids that think they are God's gift to the game but I have seen more people leave the BG scene because of being made to feel like less than a person than I have seen people actually want to go and BG.

    I am proud to say that I pissed off one of these load mouths "I am better than anyone else and I can win this BG without anyones help" asshat that anytime I'm in the same BG as he is, he leaves because I start to message him with "You R Soooooo L33T. Will you be my friend? (Got to love the spam macro)

    In an AB all he did was scream in BG chat how everyone was a loser (spelled "looser" according to him) and we where all a bunch of noobs because we failed at defending the blacksmith when we where over run 8 to 3.

    Before you start screaming and people and making fun of them because they do not yet have the gear, remember that there is a human being setting there wanting to have fun and play the game just like you. Making yourself look like more than you are by talking down to other players only makes you look like a true ass.

  • LordGene said 
    Mon, Aug 11 2008 9:13 PM ()

    I have never came a problem where lower levels between 61-65 were in my groups most the time. Maybe on average 1-2 people. I have no problem with that at all but I really agree with you there to balance out the BG;s a lot better for people between 61-65. I hate doing BG's at 61-65 since I get owned too quickly

    To Hunter. I have to agree with you here. I hate getting bad mouthed. I am very slow on getting geared out. Actually I am probably going to save my points for the expansion pack since by the time i reach 60-90k points, Expansion is out and 70 gear is worthless.

    Overall I hate the elitist attitudes in this game. its why I don't play it much anymore.

    Great game if you minus this attitude.