Blood tanks

Death Knight tanks

I do not get it everyone wants a Frost death knight tank, or a undead aoe dps or a blood dps but no one wants a Blood tank. Let me tell you about my toons I have a Sub rogue in a mix of T4 and badge gear I have a Boomkin Druid in all badge gear that I have took to T6 raids and was at the top of the damage meter. Now that Wotlk came out i have been playing my Death knight at a fair rate between work and school and i speced her blood which is not that uncommon, but people have pointed out to me is uncommon is that i have my toon in tank gear instead of DPS giving me 13k health and 15k armor unbuffed. It is not that people point it out that bothers me it is that i can not get into insta groups as a tank. and it is not like I'm Un-experienced completely i tanked on my druid for a while till i decided i would rather have a Boomkin since they are fun.

People have told me that Blood is not a tanking spec and kicked me from group more than once. the thing is i say neather is frost in that case. From what i have seen  and what other of my guildes have seen is that frost tanks can not hold Aggro on more than one mob instead of holding aggro they Freeze them in place which is quite useless if one breaks and you are on CD. as well as frost do not generate enough Runic power to do there stronger moves that keep aggro.

Where a Blood tank can hold more than one mob using there common skills that all DK have like blood boil and pestilence but since they are in blood they have therm improved thou  (might of mograine) and other talents not available to Frost. What i say is Blood does not hold them in place till they brake free and attack the healer they deal with them while still holding aggro vs Aoe, heals, and High damage high threat toons, while still having enough runes and having enough Runic power to spare. as well as all the self heals they have instead of relying on pots that can be only used once per entering combat.

I did not want to discuss Unholy for I have not tried it to its full extent i am only mention the specs i have been

There are good tanking moves for frost (Hungering cold) (unbreakable armor)(toughness) (linchborn)(frigid dreadplate)(Acclimation)

As well as good tanking moves in Blood (Blade Barrier) (spell deflect)(Rune tap) (Veteran of the third war) (Mark of Blood) (Will of the Necropolis) and my favorite so you don't need a healer as much (Blood Aura) and (bloodworms)

I say that there should be no discrimination between Blood and Frost tanks and insta groups should be fair with the person since it is not the spec it is how well you can tank with it and if you know what you are doing.

Side note: Frost aura is a good tanking move but can be easily compensated for

Side note: my current Lv. 70 spec is (55/5/1) blood

Update November 25 2008

 

"DKs make a reasonable tank no matter what your spec but most DK tanks I know are frost and use 2 x 1hd weapon, I think thats to do with the threat limitation on using a 2hder its slow spiking threat not a stream or threat, Im at level 79 with my DK and I got 20.6k HP and about 16k armor unbuffed Im blood/unholy about 34 points in both trees, good dps,good self heals and good threat I can tank most mobs with easy in frost stance, maybe the people on the server your are a fickle lol."

I do agree with that heriophant the 2h does give out Spikes of threat that is probability why they gave Frost <Nerves of Cold Steel> for Duel welding. but none the less I'm holding a 2H axe and i have not had any problems holding Aggro from mages to rogues i have yet to see them pull it off.

As for the "but you must have frost aura active for tanking, +5 threat and Armour and hp buffs" I believe you are referring to Frost Presents not Frost Aura for what frost Aura does is increase Spell resistance that is why i classified it as not 100% needed and can be compensated for.

@sogetsu_kazama i saw you had some good points i would like to see this spec your friend made to give it a test drive it sounds quite interesting. I have made the complete cobalt set for my DK and substituted some other items i picked up

Side note: for some reason i can't comment to my own blog so i'll just write it here.

Last update Nov 27 2008. Happy Thanksgiving and good luck on Friday

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  • Sat, Jul 18 2009 5:55 AM ()

    My dk is a blood tank, currently is 1/5 Heroe's and 2/5 Valorous Scourgeborne Plate with 30.6k hp unbuffed, 43 avoid, D-capped, 25k armor

    he does well in groups, i tank naxx and no-one complains.  as you said you can do dps, tank or pvp in all 3 specs.

    i found frost quite boring and i enjoy the blood health boosts :D

  • Mon, Dec 22 2008 5:24 PM ()

    blood has no migitation and doesnt give any AOE other than the basic abilities. frost has howling blast, which does double damage when target has frost fever. 3% added chance for enemies to miss, unbreakable armor, lichborne, and the haste party proc are ALL good for tanking and groups in general. blood can self heal a bit but ive tried tanking it doesnt do squat when mobs are hitting that hard. im a blood frost hybrid 27/36/8. (i think the math is right) i have unbreakable armor but i didnt see hungering cold worth while.

    go frost. or stfu.

  • Mon, Dec 22 2008 5:24 PM ()

    blood has no migitation and doesnt give any AOE other than the basic abilities. frost has howling blast, which does double damage when target has frost fever. 3% added chance for enemies to miss, unbreakable armor, lichborne, and the haste party proc are ALL good for tanking and groups in general. blood can self heal a bit but ive tried tanking it doesnt do squat when mobs are hitting that hard. im a blood frost hybrid 27/36/8. (i think the math is right) i have unbreakable armor but i didnt see hungering cold worth while.

    go frost. or stfu.

  • mgd40 said 
    Fri, Dec 19 2008 11:09 PM ()

    lol dks are not considerred tanks the best of them gear and skill cant hold aggro or cant survive the only spec that can be considerred is frost and it does not compare to prot war or pally the 2 elite tanks imo u need a shield to tank even the almighty 70 druid tank is given a run for their money as they seem to be near extinct with the additions of many caster mobs which they dont stand a chance against

  • alwayscc said 
    Fri, Dec 5 2008 8:28 AM ()

    Blood knight's are not the best choice for tanking since they dont have the mitigation to tank a run w/o getting whooped. Many people think they are a good choice b/c of the parry chance and the added 6% strength and stamina.

    Frost on the Other hand is a superb tree for tanking, offering Lichbourn and toughness and other telants to ensure you wont be a pile of armor scraps when facing a boss or mob such as the chance. My DK is frost and i can hold aggro just fine if not better then other DK or tanking class's.

    Unholy imo is and should only be considered for DPS when in an instance not reliable for tanking. They dont have any type of mitigation other then bone armor the rest they rely on disease endurance and the added bonus to diseases.

  • Walkdown said 
    Tue, Dec 2 2008 10:39 AM ()

    The only issue that DK's are having is what type of gear work for there spec does Defence rating,Parry rating, and Dodge rating make you tank better or Crital strike chance rating,Hit rating,Haste rating make you do good damage fact is I am learning how to play the class, I have no issue with Blood I have to say Blood Aura is like another version of the Healing Stream Totem which heals like 2% of your health in groups everytime you damage Is very handy in Instances and raids.The problem with Frost is that it does Crit damage,Unholy does major DPS if you know how to use it right.

  • Ykir said 
    Sun, Nov 30 2008 5:53 AM ()

    I've read several current threads from various people that all have documented a solid ability to tank as Blood and Unholy.  Some people are just idiots in WoW and because all the other classes have 3 seperate jobs for their talent trees, they are stuck trying to figure out what those are for the DK.  Truth is, any spec can tank as well as DPS.  Blizzards experiment worked out great.

  • Mufins said 
    Fri, Nov 28 2008 6:55 PM ()

    the main probly i c is they dont have enough resilence aginst dmg heroics will eat up ur pathetic heals and they dont have aoe agro, but i personaly think frost is gimped and needs redone. also the resistance stacks up to 230 resistance btw

  • Althos said 
    Fri, Nov 28 2008 3:45 PM ()

    @Aslani you do have some good points but i have to disagree with you that Blood can tank. As for Frost spec who rarely needs healing due to it's superb resistance to almost everything is not 100% true. yes they can get around 80 spell resistance to everything and if accumulation procs and stacks up to +53 so a total of 133 spell resist to once type of magic as well as the and reducing spell damage taken by 5% from frost Presence yes this seems quite powerful even with that it is not all you need to tank. one of my guildies said (druid tank) "you see all there's death knights running around thinking that there frost aura will make them a good tank" but not everything is to do with how much spell damage you can take. from what i have seen you take more melee damage than spell damage.

    As for the Blood not healing themselves enough with just there self heals the items I linked before generate enough health that when i was in some of the insta I tanked (UK, Nexus, exc...) the healer rarely needed to apply extra heals. Most of the time my bloodworms where keeping me at or close to full health. Thou I still do not believe Frost can pull aggro as fast as Blood.

    Side note: It is fine to put me down and you have yet to. That is your personal option that Blood can not tank. I am just here to give my option on the subject matter and you to give yours and I respect that. I wanted to post this blog to see personal option on this matter and to have a intellectual conversation regarding Wow.

  • aslani said 
    Fri, Nov 28 2008 6:04 AM ()

    Frost has access to Talents Chill of the Grave, Rime, and Endless Winter that makes your assumption about Frost no generating enough Runic Power false. With Blood of the North and Blood Tap, Frost can literally spam Rune skills to generate unlimited Runic Power. They are the only Talent Tree that can effectively use both Frost Strike and Rune Strike flawlessly.

    I love Unholy for reasons of my own, but I cannot deny the effectiveness of the tanking ability of Frost. The one thing I dislike about it is when fighting against frost or water elementals when its base damage capability is gimped due to elemental immunities.

    Blood cannot tank, regardless of what you have experience, Frost can tank better. If you look at the talents in Blood, there's very few that improves your tanking ability...namely, Blade Barriers. Rune Tap and other "semi-healing" talents aren't that great in raids. You're better off using that talent points into pure DPS build.

    Blood is good at leveling up, but after that, you should either spec Frost as main tank, or Unholy for AE DoTs.

    You just have to view this objectively, as a raid healer, who would you rather tank, a Blood spec who will constantly need healing because even though it can self-heal, it's not sufficient enough or Frost spec who rarely needs healing due to it's superb resistance to almost everything?

    It's not my intention to put you down, but you need not to insist a DK spec and it's not made for a tanking purpose.

  • Kody said 
    Thu, Nov 27 2008 6:20 PM ()

    @Nikkadaem:  That is intended.  There isn't supposed to be a single role for each talent tree for a Death Knight.

  • Thu, Nov 27 2008 4:45 PM ()

    While Blood has the abilities necessary to keep themselves alive and things that do help with threat generation and tanking; I do not agree that blood is a viable tanking spec by itself.  A friend of mine told me about a hybrid that he came up with in which I have currently implemented.  Death and Decay, Howling Blast, in combination with icy touch, plague strike then pestilence to spread it to the other mobs and then blood boil.  With this hybrid and even when I tanked as full frost I didn't have any issues with holding aggro.  A big problem that up and coming dks have is that, as good as the gear they get from finishing all of the starter quests is, it isn't tanking gear.  On my server, a lot of people have tried tanking as something other than frost and it hasn't gone over well at all.  People have started not even looking for dk tanks; fortunately, I have a good enough reputation with people that they know I can do it.  Well, what are the problems you ask?  Just because you decide to dip into the frost tree to get the armor contribution from items and have frost presence on, does not mean that you can successfully tank an instance.  I bought gear off the AH to make myself uncrittable at 70 and went from there; the complete cobalt set is good for that; however, in uthgard keep, the last boss, in his second phase, still hit me for 9k.  In frost are talents that were mentioned in the first thread that you must have; there is no getting around it...pallys and warriors have shields for mitigation; druids, a ridiculous amount of armor and hp, dks.....parry, miss, and dodge.  When a dk gets hit there is no [x amount of damage blocked], you take it.  I am not saying that the above person is a liar at all; they may have an easy time of it being full blood.  My hybrid is 35/36/0.  With this spec, I get more attack power with the heavy armor, the mark of blood which is a life saver, veteran of the third war, blood worms, blood aura, and rune tap....everything that can increase damage and keep me alive if a blood mob gets in that big hit...frost side, we have lichborne, improved icy talons, frigid dreadplate, runic mastery, and unbreakable armor.  This combination of protection and runic power generation from the frost tree and the increase life gain and damage from the blood tree; combine into a viable tanking spec for those that don't want to go completely frost....Deathchill in the frost tree, when used with howling blast, activates bloody vengeance and procs based on how many mobs got hit with the howling blast, so three or more mobs get hit with it...two spells and it's three procs for the price of two abilities...oddly enough, I wish they would have given something for the death and decay cooldown by itself, I only use death coil when I have nothing else to do with runic power.  Chilly of the Grave combined with the glyph of icy touch will eliminate all problems with runic power generation; I stay at 130 at the end of each fight because of it.  I will be happy to give out the specifics of the spec if anyone is interested and wants to try it out.  Personally, I would love to not have to go down the frost tree for tanking, but with this spec, not only can you tank, but you have the frost aura and blood aura, and improved melee haste that will make raids keep inviting you back again and again.

  • Thu, Nov 27 2008 4:30 PM ()

    Sorry added my comment on your profile page, but you should have at least 5 talents on each tree, dodge = unholy, when blood runes on CD % parry = frost, and then pretty much what ever you want the others in, ohh also you got to get the one that does the 15second reduction on CD for the AoE spell forget what is called (lol) i think its first line unholy in the middle (i think) but you must have frost aura active for tanking, +5 threat and armour and hp buffs

  • Thu, Nov 27 2008 10:18 AM ()

    @althos, i completely agree, my 78DK has been kicked out of many groups for not being a tank while in blood spec. regardless of being 5/5/5. It's extremely annoying the ignorance of some people.

    @nikkadaem, There is no way blizzard should "fix" the trees to be better defined. that would defeat the whole purpose of being able to tank in any tree. it's supposed to be balanced and based off of playstyle. Which is basically why i rolled a DK.

  • Wed, Nov 26 2008 12:14 PM ()

    I'm thinking that in forth coming patches Blizzard needs to make a few changes to better define the rolls. From what I've seen thus far each of the specs is pretty balanced with the other. There isn't a clearly defined roll for any of the specs. It's a bunch of gray matter floating around in space. My DK is unholy, just because I have a holy pally and I thought it would be funny to name him Darth and give him the exact same look as the pally. I'm really enjoying unholy, but plan on trying the other specs soon. Blood is my first choice.

  • Wed, Nov 26 2008 3:06 AM ()

    while ive not tried Blood spec for tanking i have spent a day as a Frost tank and far longer as an unholy tank, i hit 80 not too long ago (3 days) i tried tanking 4 heroics as Frost and aside from single targets and all the aoe stuff to try and hold threat like DnD and HB i couldnt stop the dps taking threat i didnt find any problems with runic power always had enough but not too much, so needless to say i went back to my unholy tank spec and having done that the only way i loose threat to a dps is if they manage to pull it away from me (got a certain DK friend that likes standing off a bit and using Death Grip, fine by me but if he gets the healer killed its his fault)

    Cant say im that interested in blood atm but i may eventually give it a go till then i love my ghouls and aoe spammage

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