I Suck At Blogging

PvP Videos - State of the Union

(warning: EXTREME random ranting ahead, this is being typed on the spot as I muse about it)

ISAP2 is done! Brb, ice skating around hell a few hours.

Ok, back. That was fun.

So yeah, the vid's done, and it's uploading right now. Given the original's popularity, I'm a little nervous about how this will go over. Have expectations gone through the roof? I feel like I can't even control that anymore. Ah well.

I'm not entirely happy with the actual visual quality of the vid, and it was an enormous pain to work on my old computer that's on its last feeble legs. And that brings me to the fun part...

So what's next?

ISAP3? I dunno. I have a bunch of new toys on my new computer, and now that I have a 1 terabyte drive and hardware that lets me fraps at 60 fps at full resolution, I feel like I have some breathing room. Maybe I'll do a "real" PvP video, though I still think that'll turn out as "just another mage vid". I'd like to try something more unique and experimental, though what that means exactly I'm not sure.

One thing I've been tossing around in my head is a sort of "I Suck at PvP Videos". There's a ton of movies out there, and I've seen more than I care to admit to. I've seen great vids, good vids, average vids, and vids that made me cry for humanity in their creation. I figure a basic "Here's what you can do to make your vid stand out and be enjoyable to the average viewer" would be fun to do, and I could get a chance to play with my fancy new editing tools as well.

A big question is "What do people want to see?" The short answer is that I seem to have hit on a solid piece of content that people want access to. I've seen a definite rise in "commentary" in vids, which is cool, and it's been well received all around.

The first PvP videos to arise were generally what most people would call "crit vids". Basically, "here's my character wrecking people with big numbers over and over." Let's be honest, the first one you saw was probably pretty damned fun. Hell, I still enjoy a "crit vid" from time to time when it's well done. They all generally followed the following formula:

Step 1: Dramatic shot of character walking and sheathing/unsheathing weapons Step 2: Heavy metal music with screaming Step 3: Clip after clip of things dieing to big numbers Step 4: Credits

A lot of vids today seem to follow that formula still, which is kind of disheartening. It was fun at first, sure, but when I see a rogue walking along somewhere going "HAY LOOK AT MY WEAPONS" in their 3 minute intro showing the same thing, I'm rolling my eyes and either closing the vid or clicking ahead to see some actual PvP.

I can only really think of one video that's followed that formula that people still remember today, and that would be Gegon. He basically blew the crap out of people with trinkets/AP, but he did it so stylishly that you can't help but grin at it. Pretty much everyone else has fallen away into WoW history.

Then there's editing, and the dreaded "overediting". If you haven't seen the Unknown series, go watch it now. It's a supreme example of "overediting" that actually works. The editing flows with the music, the images are suitably abstract and removed from normal WoW that they're interesting and sometimes a bit creepy, and the action just plain fits. If you simply put all the PvP clips side by side, "Unknown" would be more than its title. It's really the incredible editing this guy did that made them classics.

Finally, there's raw skill. This in itself doesn't sell a video in the slightest. Sure, you might be a "cult hit" among the more skilled mages that look for these things, but the average viewer can't really appreciate a focus CS on a heal while throwing a grenade at a resto shaman running up to clinch a kill unless you show it to them. For example, Affix is a solid mage. His 3v3 vid is a great example of how coordinated CC can absolutely wreck an opposing team. However, if you don't know what's going on, you just kind of sit there and go "Oh, they won. Yay." There were not many downloads, though it was a solid show of skill for sure.

Every PvP video tends to be a combination of these three aspects in my experience. There's Domination, Presentation, and Skill.

Gegon excelled in Domination and did well with Presentation, though (with zero insult to him) the vids generally weren't about his personal skill.

Unknown excelled in Presentation and Domination, though again had issues with skill.

Affix excelled in Skill, had some solid Domination, but lacked Presentation.

Then there's people that combine it all, like Vurtne. This is a very touchy subject for a lot of people. For example, if you want a 20 page thread on the mage forums, just post "Vurtne: Sucks or mage god?" Personally, I think he's a damned good mage, and he made damned good movies. The Vurtne phenomenon is really a combination of solid "holy crap he just wrecked that guy" clips interspersed with "Wow that was plain cool/funny/enjoyable to watch" combined with a copious amount of "wtf how did he juggle 4 people like that and come out on top".

I've heard before that people "should" like something and are disgusted with the top PvP movies because there's someone "better". Well, sure, that's true. But there's really nothing of what people "should" like, it's what they DO like. Maybe you think people SHOULD enjoy a display of pure skill, but that's irrelevant. If there's no Presentation to go with it, the average viewer won't appreciate it. And hell, we ALL like seeing someone get completely wrecked from time to time. If you don't you're a liar. Extremely close matchups are exciting, but just like if every match was completely one sided, every single match being extremely close can be just as bad sometimes.

I have absolutely no idea where I'm going with this or what I even just said, so I'm gonna stop here. Hopefully something coherent came out of it.

Anyway, ISAP2 is soon. ;)

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  • Avrsion said 
    Fri, Feb 15 2008 5:20 AM ()

    It's simple.
    We need something new. Unfortunatly, I don't think there is anything.
    The major thing I would like to see in pvp videos nowadays is people playing more than 1 class.
    I've seen it in 1 or 2 videos and it worked well in showing the players skill and understanding of the game.
    And lets face it, most decent players have more than 1 level 70. I myself have got 3 and access to another two.

  • Evertras said 
    Fri, Feb 15 2008 5:20 AM ()

    There's ALWAYS something new, though I agree for sure otherwise. The recent "1 account 3 gladiators" (or thereabouts) vid is a good example of what you're talking about, and was definitely cool to see.

    I think a big key is going to be variety. People have "seen it all", so tossing in some new or unexpected things will be big. Comedy and skits have also seemed to go over great, from both my own videos and ones like Releasing the Beast, an epic hunter vid that had some incredibly funny bits in it to keep you hooked, meshing with the PvP wonderfully.

    Every move has been done for the most part, unless you do things like Saru and Tharbad's SL/SL kill. The next step for most vids is going to be the presentation and flow of it.

  • Walkdown said 
    Fri, Feb 15 2008 5:20 AM ()

    I am not that good at PVP, I understand playing a Warlock it's not easy, as for Drakedog he was very popular because of his Critical spell damage of course watching a video of him once geting beaten by a Holy Priest In the Arena show he wasn't always the best player in the game.Even the World of Roguecraft series manage to show you can beat a Warlock just like Drakedog as a Rogue all because of a PVP Trinket.

  • Fri, Feb 15 2008 5:20 AM ()

    About this: there has been a great development in pvp- and espacially mage-vids. The first great one, the godfather of mage pvp, was probably Otherguy. Sorrow Hill 1-4 were a great success. But if you look at those vids nowadays, well, they are still good, but without a doubt you can name at least ten other mages who can do the same. then there were the "otherguy-followers" like sivvis oder dorrano. Then there was gegon, of course, as you mentioned it. Then there were mages like Albis where the editing was the mainpart. And that was it for that part, and the next "huge success" was Vurtne because he combined insane editing with skill und "low-equip vs high-equip". And there was not "much" after that, as at that moment, you knew pretty much all of it. But still, there are some, like taco (an editing-mage) or you yourself who have found new spots to fit in. And of course the "extreme-mages" like Saru&Tharbad.

    In my opinion: the next step will be story-pvp. The whole pvp-vid evolving around a story. This will be very difficult in I think, but it seems to be the only "free spot" that nobody has really tried out until today (or I just missed those vids) I would love to do something like that, unfortunatly I think that I am not good enough at PvP.
    Maybe an idea for your next vid? Well, maybe not.

    EDIT: Just watched ISaPvP2. It's great, I loved to watch it. The only bad thing about it is... well, it's too short. "Alright, we've reached the end of the movie" What? Already? He can't be serious.

  • Fri, Feb 15 2008 5:20 AM ()

    "We need something new. Unfortunately, I don't think there is anything."

    It's amazing we see statements like this so many times in history, and yet they never seem to be true.

    Honestly, I can't help but think on the same lines as you, indeed I've felt that I've seen pretty much all type of PvP videos there are and that there really cant be anything 'fresh', however, I believe that there are a TON of stuff that haven't been done yet, it's just that most people are either not imaginative enough or they simply aren't brave enough to try these new styles of pvp video.

    I doubt showcasing the skill of more then one class would be the major winner in pvp videos. The ultimate pvp video in my opinion would probably showcase a variety of different pvp styles, be it arena, world pvp, BG's, dueling etc. Evertras/Nevertras does this, however he does it from the perspective of an 'average' mage, not the 'zomg1337' mage that everyone wants to see. I personally cant believe you continue playing the roll of an 'average' mage, personally I believe you should step up, but thats your choice.

    I personally would love to see a something akin to say a 'pvp squad', 5 people say. Not arena style, more world pvp raiding style.

    Watched ISAP2: I have to agree that it is very short, you've managed to inspire me to go all out on SL/SL locks though =P

    It focused more on comedy then actual pvp compared to your last vids, it would have probably been much funnier if warlock alt played a more frequent role, but hunter alt managed to cover =P

    I always end up downloading a new song when I watch one of your clips >.<

    Keep up the good work by the way, and good luck with your other projects.

  • Malystra said 
    Fri, Feb 15 2008 5:20 AM ()

    I'd like to thank you guys for giving me ideas for what vids to watch next. I myself like both crit vids and skill vids but I'll take skill over crit any day when it comes to rogue vids. I wish Zalgradis would've made another paladin video after BC but .....oh well.

  • Fri, Feb 15 2008 5:20 AM ()

    Just to say dude your vids rock and theyre extremely helpful (wish i would have rolled mage first). Anywho i did want to say that your completely right abt the whole crit vid thing and its rlly getting to be a prob. There is one vid tho that makes me still smile and cringe win i see it... Appocalypse on youtube... if you haven't seen him hit those numbers on a friggin pally go now!!! Anyway ty for making your vids and i hope you add more soon!

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