PvP - the new MMO supertrend

Jarlaxle — Mon, 02 Jul 2007 23:30:53 GMT

btw I can barely hear your voices. Probably got something to do with the quality/environment

PvP - the new MMO supertrend

Jarlaxle — Mon, 02 Jul 2007 23:30:52 GMT

I think you make a good point when you say why PvE is dropping so much lately. Another reason might be due to the fact that WoW introduced alot of people into the genre, and alot of those people got bored with PvE (uninteresting quests, mostly grinding for items and instanced raids) in that game (WoW is mainly a PvE game, you can't deny that). So there you have a good number of people for more PvP based MMOs...

Btw, most of the people that played UO in its early days are disgusted with what Mythic has done with it. Plus I don't think there's a open pvp and full loot server atm. Maybe Siege Perilous ?

Guild Wars isn't a MMO. Even ArenaNet stated that

Anyway I don't see a MMO with good PvP atm besides EVE. And of those that are gonna be released ? AoC and Darkfall, eventually WAR...

PvP - the new MMO supertrend

dhask — Mon, 02 Jul 2007 23:30:51 GMT

WoW's endgame is all PvP. Sure, I'm not KILLING other players, but I'm most definitely competing with them. I'm competing for raid spots, for raid drops, for quest and grinding kills, for AH items, for crafting business...

More seriously, WoW's endgame sucks because it's so highly inaccessible. The PvP game is substantially more accessible: it's trivial to join a BG queue, or on a PvP server, step outside a town. But PvP is not sustainable long term, because it will either fail to reward skill, and thus be unsatisfying, or reward skill, and thus cause most players to lose most of the time... and become unsatisfying. This is what happened to UO the first time around, very few players enjoy losing most of the time, and very few players become good enough to win more than they lose.

Like Moe said:

PvP - the new MMO supertrend

Nimloth — Mon, 02 Jul 2007 23:30:50 GMT

I was talking with Jason Stone the other day, and we came onto the topic of what makes coherently fun gameplay. What kind of gameplay do you play for the fact that just playing it is fun?

We brought up some of the older games like Mario or Megaman who'se replay value has been enormous and looked at what was fun about it. The PvP aspect if something you for the most part do because you enjoy the act of your gaming, while in many parts of PvE grinds or raids there are parts you absolutely hate but you do it anyways because you "know you have to".

Take potions, for example. I'm willing to bet that not even 30% of the tradeskillers doing alchemy does tradeskills because they think it's fun to run around and pick flowers and sit in the AH all day.

PvP - the new MMO supertrend

Jarlaxle — Mon, 02 Jul 2007 23:30:49 GMT

I didn't play UO back in the old days, but what UO fans from back then keep saying all the time is that the game was screwed up with Trammel. And Trammel was basically a place with consent only PvP introduced by the devs to stop the dwindling subscription numbers. However, the core, the PvP-ers, would have stayed. Not when they screwed up the game like that though :p And later, items became too important (I think the Age of Shadows expansion), and lost even more PvP-ers. But carebears did continue playing, however :P

And I think you are one of them. Why do you fear losing so much ? Losing should be part of any game. Eventually you'll get better. Or team up with some guild to make your revenge