A Disparate World (of Warcraft) - Part 2

Crusnik02 — Wed, 20 Aug 2008 11:21:58 GMT

Before anyone starts flaming (because I know this is a sensitive subject sometimes), please remember.

I DO NOT HATE PVP. THIS IS NOT A QQ.

I simply am explaining what happened between PvP and PvE. I'm a player that did engage in both activities almost equally (Priest PvP, Rogue PvE, and no I didn't get that backwards, though the rogue PvPs now).

Part 3 will be interesting as some of the myths of WoW, lies that people make others believe and the way people are will be revealed. Have a good read.

A Disparate World (of Warcraft) - Part 2

Acehunterpro — Wed, 20 Aug 2008 11:21:57 GMT

well put. i concur! 5/5

A Disparate World (of Warcraft) - Part 2

CircaRevolt — Wed, 20 Aug 2008 11:21:56 GMT

Look forward to reading part 3.

A Disparate World (of Warcraft) - Part 2

2rbear — Wed, 20 Aug 2008 11:21:55 GMT

Good blog! Subscribed and waiting for part 3 ;-)

A Disparate World (of Warcraft) - Part 2

Lesko — Wed, 20 Aug 2008 11:21:54 GMT

Very good blog keep going :D

A Disparate World (of Warcraft) - Part 2

Majiktusk — Wed, 20 Aug 2008 11:21:53 GMT

Bravo, this is so true, I still miss the title thing, that made it hard to get items, now when I go to Kara, Gruuls, and Mag, most of the rogues and hunters will have the pvp gear. Epics are called EPIC for a reason. Doing Arena is good but just Battleground is bad.

A Disparate World (of Warcraft) - Part 2

brandonlorden — Wed, 20 Aug 2008 11:21:52 GMT

I read this and sympathize with you on this problem, but sadly I am a new generation WoW player who never got a chance to experience all these great things. I am a lvl 31 Dranei Warrior who wishes he could battle dragons like people did pre-BC. I want to do instances like Upper Blackrock Spire and it seems unfair that people gave up on all of this. I hope WoW continues to evolve in a good way, but it stinks that beginners lose out on some really awesome things. Added to that the seemingly easy to date PvP system, and I feel depressed more than anything that we will all have the same epic gear and no one will help noobs. I have the basics down, and in fact I think I can hold my own decently for my level just like all of you one time did and still do. But I want to experiemce Kara and the Sunwell and with the WotLK coming I feel like priority will be given to it OF COURSE, but I still want people to care about BC just as they should for the original. Is my desire a hopeless one? Will I be able to slay a dragon with 40 other ppl maybe not for rewarding gear like it used to be, but for the thrill of the hunt?

A Disparate World (of Warcraft) - Part 2

Thaina — Wed, 20 Aug 2008 11:21:51 GMT

Crusnik02 wrote:

"Work really hard at PvE and wait 2 hours to get an instance group together before the actual run, OR join the PvP wagon to "easy epics"."

But isn't that difficulty in forming a group in itself indicative that there is a problem? What's fun about working for 2 hours to get an instance group together? This is supposed to be a game, for entertainment!

That is why I have hardly done instances. It's not that I don't like them per se; when I get a good group, they can be a lot of fun. But that's a big IF. Just getting a group is a major pain, and getting a good group is even harder. PUGs from the LFG channel are a nightmare... often you get total idiots who only want to toss out insults and make the experience as unpleasant as possible, or they will NEED on things they can't even use, on and on.

Getting the group together is a lot like work. It's not fun... the logistics is just a pain. And half the time you get part way through and your tank or healer has to go do something else, and they leave. And raids, being even bigger groups and requiring participation for more than one session, are only that much worse.

Battlegrounds are popular in part because they do away with all of that. You just find a battlemaster and sign up and bam, there's your group. You still get a lot of idiots like in the 5-man PUG, but with more people the abuse is a lot more diffuse and easy to ignore. If one of your team has to go do other things, half the time you wouldn't even notice they are gone... someone else will be provided without you having to do anything. If a team member cannot or will not perform their role, it's not as big a thing as it is with a 5-man. A healer that can't heal or a tank that can't keep aggro (or who runs from the mobs-- yes, I was in a group where this happened) is a show-stopper, but in a battleground, it does not matter nearly as much. Even if you get a whole group of people who do not perform and you lose, you still get some honor and a token for your time.

Then there is the specificity of roles in the 5-man. You could find a group of people who want to do the same instance as you, but they need a tank and you're a rogue, or they need a healer and you are a warlock, on and on. And then you get ones where they need DPS and you're say a fury warrior, but they would really like someone who can do CC, so no thanks.

With a good group, I prefer pve to pvp, but I do pvp (battlegrounds) a lot more just because its so much easier. I am often online when none or only a few of my friends are on, so running an instance with them (assuming they even want to run one at that moment) is often just not possible without PUGs, and I really don't like those outside of BG. I can, though, do a BG whenever the mood strikes me, and the logistics is all handled for me.

As for pvp gear not being useful in pve: Maybe this is true in higher level content, but for the player who is in 70 blues and greens, pvp epics are still an upgrade, even though they are "gimped" by their focus on stamina and resilience. And in terms of weapons, it is often hard to do better than the pvp epics.

In short, PVE is still not casual enough for me. I still can't sit down at the computer, day or night, and just start doing it like I can with battlegrounds. Unless that changes, pvp will continue to be more feasible for people like me. And that's a shame, as I really don't care all that much for pvp.

A Disparate World (of Warcraft) - Part 2

Crusnik02 — Wed, 20 Aug 2008 11:21:50 GMT

I could bet you my 3 70s that if PvP gear sucked, you (or most other players) wouldn't be choosing battlegrounds. When BC first came out, everyone HAD to instance. If you were in battlegrounds, you were in battlegrounds with Kara or 70 instance gear, testing out the power. There was no Season 1/2 for honor, there was blue crap that was equal to (or worse) than the gear that you can buy with Honored Reputation. You had to pay 12000 honor for THOSE shoulders. I'm pretty sure you'd take shoulders with 44 AP over 12 AP, resilience or not. And people found ways to get 1 and 2 hour instances done.

Instances only got difficult to get groups for AFTER PvP got easier. It was NEVER the other way around. Another myth I'm covering tonight. And yes, that means the 3rd part will be out within the next 24 hours, and I'm glad I can add this to it.

A Disparate World (of Warcraft) - Part 2

Crusnik02 — Wed, 20 Aug 2008 11:21:49 GMT

Things wouldn't be so hard to organize for pre-BC instances if Blizzard removed the attunement requirements. Most attunements require a lot of time, and a lot of the players now either didn't do them on their new mains, or they never knew of them (or needed them) as a newer player.

MC requires attunement. Onyxia as well, BWL, and Naxx has the worst one. No one has those attunements anymore, so no one can really say "let's go kill Onyxia" because you'll need people who cared back in the day, as well as people who decided to care now. Subtract the entire Draenei and Blood Elf population, and you still have slim chances of finding people attuned.

So I'm sorry, I wish you could do those old instances, but Blizzard would rather take away attunements to Mount Hyjal and Black Temple than to BC and BWL.

A Disparate World (of Warcraft) - Part 2

tinkertikki — Wed, 20 Aug 2008 11:21:48 GMT

Blizzard needs to make PvP gear less functional in PvE, and vice versa. I love PvP and don't really care at all about PvE. I'd happily accept my PvP-earned gear sucking in PvE settings.

Two separate ways of earning gear need two separate sets of functionality. Resilience isn't sufficient differentiation. Raid gear should be lame in PvP, and PvP gear should be worthless in raids.

Also, nerf melee for crying out loud. (I couldn't not mention that, sorry)

A Disparate World (of Warcraft) - Part 2

daikane — Wed, 20 Aug 2008 11:21:47 GMT

Some people still do the "old-world" raids for the heck of doing them for fun (including some Draenei, mind you), doing Naxx attunes and other such if needed.

Majority's become blinded by the new shiny toys, that's the problem...

A Disparate World (of Warcraft) - Part 2

airddragon — Wed, 20 Aug 2008 11:21:46 GMT

I like the style of your writing. While i may not agree with everything you say, I do find your perspective very clear and not written in that old MMORPG whine tone. I look forward to reading part 3.

A Disparate World (of Warcraft) - Part 2

Crusnik02 — Wed, 20 Aug 2008 11:21:45 GMT

I don't always agree. Raid gear should give a substantial amount of power in comparison to the PvE gear, bringing back the "glass cannon" concept of Arcane/Fire mages. My rogue has PvE gear, and because rogues are hard to kill (even without resilience), he does pretty well in PvP. The PvE side gives a little "glass cannon" feel, and even some classes can destroy arenas in T5 and T6 with little more than 150-200 resilience.

I was supposed to post the third part, but it doesn't feel good enough, and it seems a little to PvE-friendly than seeing both sides...I'll put it up anyway, and I guess I'll make a PvP portion as a 4th part to it, I did want to mention some parts to PvP (good and bad).

A Disparate World (of Warcraft) - Part 2

Joral — Wed, 20 Aug 2008 11:21:44 GMT

I have played WoW from beta until about 6 months ago. i was getting fed up with not being able to get a raid going yet everyone wanting to go PvP (I was on Kilrogg, a PvE server).

Crusnik02, you are spot on man. If I wanted to play a game mainly devoted to PvP, I wouldn't have been playing WoW. I played WoW because I like the lore mainly.

What's funny is I am going to be playing WAR now......