A Disparate World (of Warcraft) - Part 1

zwfhill — Sat, 26 Jul 2008 18:29:46 GMT

Well first off, good post because I have actually experienced the lack of good profession recipes with my Mage's enchanting. 286 and no good things I can sell. his tailoring is high so I can sell the rare cloths, but thats it. Plus, your title reminds me of the South Park and WoW episode.

A Disparate World (of Warcraft) - Part 1

CircaRevolt — Sat, 26 Jul 2008 18:29:45 GMT

Good post. The BG grind is the downfall of the end game I believe. It's become necessary to do end game PVE and that should never be an issue...forcing players to do PVP in order to do PVE? They should always be separate and never be required to do one in order to excell in the other. There are other ways to get the gear you need to get started with kara, but at the end of the day it's just too much easier to go and sit in a Battlegrounds the it is to find the groups and get the badges you need. Some classes have it easier than others, but as an ex-protadin I can say that some classes have a really painful process of getting geared for their first Raid.

I think they've helped things out by making certain "intermediate" gear sets available earlier making the process faster (the blue pvp starter sets), but meh...the end game content in TBC is definitely the best in WoW, and arguably any other MMORPG for that matter. However, they ruined the progression in which you go through to get to that point.

A Disparate World (of Warcraft) - Part 1

Thaina — Sat, 26 Jul 2008 18:29:44 GMT

I am one of those players who has "rushed" to 70 (three times so far,and number 4 is almost at level 59 now), but it's not because I consider the end game to be so great. As a matter of fact, I don't like the end game much at all.

I "rush" to 70 because I find solo leveling up (with help from one friend I play with sometimes) to be a great deal of fun. Every time I get the next level and place my talent point and go train more skills, it's a reward for the work put in.

I never made any effort to do instances below 70 the right way (meaning without a much higher lev character running me) because they simply are not the most efficient way to level up. Sure, you get xp, but by the time you assemble the group (and this is the hard part for me) and actually do it, you could have quested and gotten at least as much xp, even considering the large xp payoff of many instance quests. And solo leveling is, for me, a lot more fun than an instance.

I really don't care too much about the "loot" before 70 because I level so fast that anything I get is going to be sold to a vendor in just a couple of days anyway.

So I "rush" to 70 not because I can't wait to get there, but because leveling up is fun and I play for fun.

So then I get to 70 and for a short while, it is fun too... I can grind solo to level my professions (the 59 I am working on now is the first one where I did professions before I hit 70), and I can grind to get the mats for the things I need to get good armor and weapons crafted (whether I make them myself or find someone else to do so). And for most factions, I can grind all the way to be able to get the gear they sell too (those that make me do instances simply stay, usually, at honored, which is usually grindable).

But then the ability to keep improving through solo grinding ends. I can do a lot of dailies solo, but beyond a certain point, there is not a lot you can do to improve your character even with a lot of gold. So it is then that I turn to PVP, which I dislike strongly, simply because PUGing a BG is the closest thing to soloing that I can do at that point.

And once I have the full PVP set, there is not much more to do other than try to start doing instances or to start again. And as I don't find grouping for instances to be all that enjoyable (I prefer to succeed or fail by my own skill or lack thereof; I prefer not to inflict my poor gaming skills on others), so far the pattern has been that I abandon my former "main" at 70 and level up another one.

After this 59 is done I have a 40 waiting, and a 21 after that.

I would love for there to be more soloable content to keep me engaged well after 70, but there isn't much as it stands.

A Disparate World (of Warcraft) - Part 1

astrocanis — Sat, 26 Jul 2008 18:29:43 GMT

I don't think it's just PvP gear that is the downfall of the level 70ish instances. It's heroics. And the mindset that if you aren't already geared for SSC, you can't do Shadow Lab.

My baby paladin (new 70), has 1200 +healing. I am rejected for healing a Black Morass. I call him my baby, but he was a raider at one time. Got him all the way through BWL before I quit him for my priest. I know how to heal. But I'm still rejected. And those instances are NORMAL. Imagine how hard it is to get a run in a heroic with those stats?

I have no choice but to PvP. If you've ever PvPed as a healer on Alliance, you would know the pain that PvP healers experience.

With all the options that Blizzard has put into the game, the players offer remarkably few options.

A Disparate World (of Warcraft) - Part 1

Walkdown — Sat, 26 Jul 2008 18:29:42 GMT

Well you make a good point, but as a player there also other issues as well for players who lack experiance in the game trying also find group for Instances can't find them on there sever because there are not many around to go with them.

I myself had to help them out people with my level 70 main who is a Holy Pally because I can relate that they need help, they want to get that quest over with as much as anyone else.

Not many people will go to Blackrock Depths,Blackrock Spire,Dire Maul,Scholomance for example because of bad experiance they had with groups sometimes, or they never known about it the instance, for me for example I don't know the location to Dire Maul.

A Disparate World (of Warcraft) - Part 1

Lightz39 — Sat, 26 Jul 2008 18:29:41 GMT

Good read, im still new to wow so I haven't noticed these things as much as you probley have.

A Disparate World (of Warcraft) - Part 1

iplaywowforfun — Sat, 26 Jul 2008 18:29:40 GMT

good read. also, i was reading the comments and thaina has an excellent point

A Disparate World (of Warcraft) - Part 1

Luithien — Sat, 26 Jul 2008 18:29:39 GMT

Rushing to 70 is a natural urge that people have. Eveyone wants to achieve more, become the one great healer, tanker, dpser. It is a gradual process that never stops in WOW. Every class chooses their own path of leveling. Some find it easier to solo, and others prefer dungeons. Leveling my priest, in holy spec from day one, I found it easier to gather groups, and hardly ever done any soloing. However I chose questing for my first character - balance druid. Honestly, I'm deeply upset about the lack of good moonkin gear. It's been a pain to get geared for Kara. I agree with the comment that in order to PVE players are forced to PVP. It is something that can not be avoided, unless you have someone to run you through heroics.
A very upsetting thing about being a 70 to me is the lack of time for raids. We all have jobs, schooling, families, and other things to attend to in real life. A Kara run with a good group takes up several hours to do, not counting the time to gather such a group. How can Blizz expect players to do 30- man raids? This questions remains a mystery to me. I wish Blizz could come up with something not as time consuming to get good PVE gear than raids. I can only dream of running BT or SSC due to the lack of time. That's where my game ends. I have no idea how I will make it through to the lvl 80 with the next release.
What I really got to love in WoW is the people, the cooperation, help, teamwork. I've got to know so many wonderful people, who are willing to help. After switching guilds for a couple of times, I realized that what matters the most is your friend list. Being in different guilds doesn't stop people from helping each other. Helping in game - means spending hours of your personal time for somebody you've never met in real life , and that means a lot. WoW is like nothing else shows what people really are. It enables people to act according to their morals without any boundaries. Will you help a lowbie with a quest? Will you assist a stranger who is being camped by horde/alliance? Will you heal/tank a dungeon for a needy group? Will you PvP with someone with little resilience rating?
Or. Will you ride by? Will you refuse to help? Will you need on something you don't really need( or need for a shard) ? Will you refuse a spot in your heroic/raid group to a not all-epiced player ?
These questions are most important.
Also, think about WHY you're striving to get the best gear? WHY you're doing all this ?
And WHAT will you do after you get it?
To me, the answer is clear - to be needed, be welcome in any group/guild, to be admired by other players, to turn from the asking for help to the giving help.
I hope Blizz will help us in achieving this.

A Disparate World (of Warcraft) - Part 1

aliethiya — Sat, 26 Jul 2008 18:29:38 GMT

Did you actually mean "disparate" or did you mean desperate? Because if you really meant disparate, maybe "different" would be better since it looks less like a really crappy spelling of desperate. WoW has made me assume everyone is a bad speller.

A Disparate World (of Warcraft) - Part 1

MorepewpewLessQQ — Sat, 26 Jul 2008 18:29:37 GMT

Either 1. You need to work on your networking/people skills OR 2. You are just bad at playing the game.

No grind is necessary, if you learn to multitask and make a plan you'll find yourself with rewards that felt effortless.

It just sounds like your upset because you did the POWER RUSH. - I'll go get you a tissue...

& remember if you are playing only for yourself, you will get only yourself in return.

A Disparate World (of Warcraft) - Part 1

Ardman — Sat, 26 Jul 2008 18:29:36 GMT

Our guild has a no boosting policy , You want to get to 70 then you do it properly . I've lost count of the amount of 70's I have seen that have absolutely no grasp about how to behave in an instance and more importantly how their class works . Crowd control is an alien concept to most let alone threat .

Its all well and good having all the epeen fancy pvp gear but little use if you cant use simple skills like sap or misdirect .

Shortcuts to 70 are fine for people who have multiple 70's already . But for your first time player its a recipe for disaster .

Most first time 70's I see are either in full pvp gear nowadays or a rag tag of quest greens and a talent spec from hell or a cookie cutter build .

Easiest way to sort them out is drop them in a heroic and watch them get one shotted . Thats usually enough to shake the belief that they know how to play .

A Disparate World (of Warcraft) - Part 1

Saeble — Sat, 26 Jul 2008 18:29:35 GMT

Luithien makes many points I agree with.. good read :)

A Disparate World (of Warcraft) - Part 1

shaithiswampir — Sat, 26 Jul 2008 18:29:34 GMT

Agreed with a lot of what was said. I would like to see a level cap for Dungeouns to prevent the running of lowbies thru low-level instances. Might cut down on the WTB DM runs on the trade channel. Would like to see a point at which you are to high a level to be allowed in the lower instances.

A Disparate World (of Warcraft) - Part 1

Crusnik02 — Sat, 26 Jul 2008 18:29:33 GMT

The thing that's weird is, why didn't they do that with a PvE set, make D3 gear buyable to help people get into Kara as well?

That's what gets me. Certain things catered to PvP.

A Disparate World (of Warcraft) - Part 1

Crusnik02 — Sat, 26 Jul 2008 18:29:32 GMT

You make a good point, but I ask you, did you ever look for one of those casual guilds, ones who take two hours at a time into Kara? Because I was in plenty of guilds who did that. People who had all the time in the world would farm professions, reputations, etc. But the people who could only be on 2-3 hours at a time had the ability to do a 2-hour Kara run, which normally downed 3 bosses at a time. Even so, by separating the bosses, people were able to choose when to go, letting those who really needed that gear to go.

PvE was made easier over time, but each time they tossed PvP another bone. Making Badges of Justice a little quicker to collect was a great idea, but they took way too long. I had an easy solution in my mind of this, but there's really no point explaining it.

PvE never took too much time. People believed it did, and then PvP opened its arms to them. Even now, despite the amount of PvP going on, Kara with a good group only takes 3-4 hours to clear, and most people do up to Curator in 2 hours, and the rest the next day.