Blizzard's Community Manager talks future of WoW PvP

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Taldren — Tue, 29 May 2007 06:10:25 GMT

Maybe they should work on balancing CLASSES for PvP?

Example of what I am talking about ... Warriors vs Rogues and Paladins vs Priests.

Warriors are so much better then rogues for DPS and Paladins are so much better then Priests for Healing in the arenas that it is a big turnoff to PvPers. Why should WoW become an ESport when your class choice/race choice so greatly outweighs skill of the players?

Warriors have High Single and AE damage, unremovable debuffs, unremovable buffs, spell interrupts, unremovable stun, unremovable fear, unremovable dots, undodgeable attacks, and can basically teleport around a map with intercept. Execute, Mortal Strike, and Hamstring are some of the most powerful abilities in the entire game and they are on the same class.

Rogues have removable poisons, High single target DPS, stuns, disorients, stealth, and cloak of shadows.

Can you see a small inbalance?

Paladins have blessings, high efficient single target heals, removable mana regeneration, plate armor, a removable stun, removable divine shield, removable blessing of protection, removable blessing of freedom, huge damage mitigation.

Priests have very expensive buffs, large heals, AE heals, a removable shield, a removable HoT, a removable armor buff, a removable fear, a horrible mana regeneration method, and low damage mitigation.

AE heals are about the priests only advantage, but the tactic in arenas is ASSISTING, meaning that AE heals are worthless ... leaving priests as just weak paladins.

Most PvPers on the WoW forums understand WoW to mean Waiting on Warhammer.

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Monstercloud — Tue, 29 May 2007 06:10:24 GMT

@Taldren

Um.. you do realize, that there are so many other arguments of your "Imbalance" issue, that it really becomes a moot point focusing on two of them?

Mages vs Rogues

Warlocks vs (Insert whatever class here)

Mages vs Warriors

Hunters vs ....whatever (I really don't know..)

etc etc..

Here's the thing though, you are talking about 1 VS 1 in an ARENA FIGHT. as in, more than just 1 vs 1... you want 1 vs 1, and then go on and on how it's going to be unfair when dueling becomes an ESport, go right ahead, that argument, while still poor, would match what awful "OMGZ NERF (class)" post you have

Did you also think it's not ALL about PvP? What about PvE? What then? Create whole new formulas for damage and spell/skill/debuff adjustments just so it's based PURELY on skill just for PvP? That's not how MMORPGs work, one class is meant to be the bane of another, and that class is supposed to be a bane of another.

In short

-Dueling PvP =/= Arena PvP

- X-class will most of the times trump Y-Class, and Y-Class will most of the times trump Z-Class

-There will never be a MMORPG that has an even playing field across ALL jobs/classes/races.. that's what other types of games are for. (FPS/RTS/Etc)

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Aaberg — Tue, 29 May 2007 06:10:23 GMT

No offence to the PvP'ers, but as a PvE raider, I fear that this whole balancing classes in PvP may ruin the balance of the PvE. And imo, when it comes to WoW, PvE > PvP. BUt in all fairness, WoW is still one of the best balanced mmo's with both a viable PvE and PvP part. Look at LOTRO; as far as I've seen, i'm really not impressed if you want a PvE/PvP mmo.

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Taldren — Tue, 29 May 2007 06:10:22 GMT

There is no 1v1 Arena.

It is a definate fact that any team can "upgrade" be trading a priest for a paladin and/or a rogue for a warrior.

Priest to Paladin and Rogue to Warrior comparisons are valid because they fill the same exact rolls in arena PvP unless the priest is shadow spec ... in which case you compare it to a warlock ... and I think anyone could tell you which is better.

If World of Warcraft is serious about becoming an ESport they need to rebalance for PvP ... at LEAST while inside the confines of Arenas/BGs. There are tons of PvE only spells and abilities ... it is about time PvP only spells be added to clean up the mess they have made in order for people to compete against the raid bosses their design team has thought up.

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Monstercloud — Tue, 29 May 2007 06:10:21 GMT

I know there is no 1v1 arena.. which is why i opened with said example..

and there is not just 2v2 arena.. also 3v3, and 5v5.. but other than pointing out the obvious.

Secondly, no, your awful examples arn't Valid, as every class is different, everyone is specced differently, everyone is geared differently.. BUT OH NOES! DIFFERENT VARIABLES!? Insane! can't happen! Everyone must be equal! COOOKIE CUTTER JOBS/SPEC/GEAR FOR EVERYONE!.. If you don't like the way you get killed, and what class you get killed by.. then play another class, or get better... or stop PvPing all together.

Your biggest paragraph makes me giggle, as you clearly aren't a game developer of any sort (by far, neither am I). What does PvP/PvE skills only mean?.. and how would it clean up the "Mess"? What is this proverbial "Mess", oh great game guru... let the masses be spoken through you.

Oh.. and yeah.. i can add rep to my own posts too..

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Taldren — Tue, 29 May 2007 06:10:20 GMT

I'm sorry, but I can just as easily call your point of view delusional and/or ignorant.

If class A completely dominates class B then it doesn't really matter that C is present in the arena, because A all by itself can take care of B.

Arena's are about assisting, it always comes down to X v 1 and certain classes are far better at it. If Class A and Class B have the same job in the arena (paladin/priest to heal and warrior/rogue to DPS) but one choice does the job with much less help required and/or provides better overall utility then that is a huge problem. It is not acceptable for any class to be the absolute "wrong" choice when the developers at release told us that there would be none. Having wrong choices means that skill takes a back seat to race/class selection which is inherently bad for a game that wishes to become an ESport.

As for the PvE/PvP only skills, I certainly can't understand why you couldn't figure this out on your own. PvE-only skills: Taunt, Fade, Mind Soothe ... come quickly to mind. Now what makes these PvE only? They only have a function against mobs and do nothing against other players. Now knowing this it isn't hard to figure out what I meant by PvP only abilities, however I will spell it out for you anyway. They work either only in PvP zones (arenas/bgs) or only on enemy players.

As for the mess, the mess is the abilities blizzard hand out to classes in order for them to compete with the imagination of the AI developers inside instances. In no way will this game ever be balanced as-is with such abilities as Mortal Strike in the game. There is no way a straight 50% reduction to the effectiveness of any class can be balanced without additional abilities to counter/remove it. However these abilities would unbalance PvE instances/encounters that are based around them.

Oh.. and yeah.. I call them like I see them.

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El_Diabl0 — Tue, 29 May 2007 06:10:19 GMT

now i know what will kill wow, arena...

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aikouka — Tue, 29 May 2007 06:10:18 GMT

Actually, taunt was used in PVP by skilled warriors in duels against hunters. Hunters loved to Ice Block warriors constantly, but if the hunter kept his pet out, the warrior was able to taunt before he hit the next trap, the pet would hit him and pull him out of the trap.

Was never a perfect technique, but it was better than getting trapped constantly :P. Barov Peasant Caller was also one of the counters to the trap-happy hunters, but trinkets aren't "PVE skills" so I didn't include it.