nice, true, it gives insentive to work for somthing,feels like an aheviemant, and allows to integrate a developing story or lore or somthing to work towards a problem to solveinto wow that instrests players with the mystery. Without this intrest the game would strongly decline and no story to keep players inticed. with no problems to solve wow wouldnt be (or any other game fun) people to active and move new neurons (wich creates intrest) thats why attunmant not only needs to be there, but needs to be fun and varied as to how to acheive it. Even if player complain they subconsouly like the problem it gives to solve, but if all atunmants are too similar it may lose this effect to a point.

i love the old ony attune, mc and bwl attune were all fantastic, i liked kara attune also. but everything after that is kinda bleh as far as attunements for the top end of content.

althought i guess killing kael and vashj is a pretty epic quest, i just thought they could do something more entertaining.

Attunements might be meaningful and give a sense of accomplishment as mentioned above. However, WoW negated any pre BC attunements and have left the old world virtually unpopulated by throwing open the door to everyone to gain the same type of gear without having done the grind. It destroyed guilds and alienated players, to the point that many left the game, to enter TBC and find out that all their time and effort at gaining attunements was virtually useless in terms of being geared, etc. I personally do not want to do the grind for attunements, only to have Blizzard make that grind meaningless at some future expansion by making the purple gear gained through all the work outdated with green drops coming off common mobs that usually non groupable players could get (those whose play is so poor they wipe a group repeatedly and then jet).

"that any idiot could get." I've done both BC and preBC attunements, and raids, had my gear outdated, and it did not upset me. Because I PLAYED the whole time to have FUN! Not so I could feel like an accomplished citizen. And not so I could insult players ingame and on forums. I get my true sense of accomplishment from contributing to the lives of my family, friends and neighbors, by earning honest pay and paying my bills. I did not feel cheated by having my purple, shiny gear outdated, in fact I would have been disappointed if I had been stuck in the same old duds for another year or two. Insulting "casual gamers" by inderectly calling them idiots is exactly what gives the rest of us raiders a bad name. I've played with lots of people who didn't have a full Kara set who were on top of their game. Just because thay don't raid doesn't make them idiots. Often it means they do not have the same time you or I have to play.

Now really Madstunty, I did not refer to the casual gamer as an idiot. More power to the casual gamer. And anyone that is silly enough to equate in game accomplishment with real life would be silly as well. And yet we play to have fun, and in my opinion the attunements did bring a sense of accomplishment. Yes gear has to advance, or the game would be stale. However, to completely outdate months of ingame work by placing greens that were better than epic on trash mobs, the game was not enhanced. FYI, there were many casual gamers in our guild that got purple gear. They were not hard core raiders. You did not have to be hard core to get good gear. I have a full time job, pay my bills, interact with my family, friends, etc. The two are not in the same ball game. Comments referring to gameplay are just that. This is a forum for opinions, this is mine, but I will edit idiot to make it more clear who I was referring to.

One thing that a lot of people forget, is that attunement can also be considered a type of gear/skill check. Take kara for example. If you are not able to finish SV, SL, Arc and COT2...then you have no business being in kara. You (and your group) should be able to easily clear SV, SL, and Arcatraz in order to stand a chance in kara. If you are unable to clear those, then you will not be able to get past the first couple bosses in kara.

SSC, if you (And your raid group) can not successfully defeat nightbane and gruul, then you have no business stepping foot in SSC. Because the bosses inside SSC are on par if not harder than nightbane and gruul. So why would you expect to be able to kill them, if you can't first kill lesser bosses?

I am 1000% for attunements as they require you to accomplish things in order and build your skill/gear in the process.

I have so many people that think just because they are 70, that they can run kara and above for gear. They don't realize that you need to run everything under it multiple times to get to where you are clearing it with no problems, and get all of hte gear from it to make you stronger.

But unfortunately, for most people it takes them walking into kara, getting on shotted by a horse, and saying "wow, those horses are strong!" to realize that they may be out of their league.

Attunement..... personally I think its a 50/50 thing.

First, I would like to dispel a 'urban myth' that some of the attunements in the game are anything other than time sinks. Call it skill checks if you want to, but if you look at how much time was processed to do said attunements you'd realize they are not gear checks so much as how much time are you willing to put in checks. But don't get me totally wrong here, they do have a skill test factor to them so this is not 100% time, I'd say it would be about 70% time, 20% skill, and about 10% gear/consumables.

Now at this point many will probably thinking "Oh he's pro-unattunement", except they would be wrong. I think attunements should be used as is necessary. Some places require it and some others don't. I actually think this is a good thing. It creates room for the exceptions to the time drop I was talking about. If a group is good enough to increase the skill % beyond a certain amount of time then more power to them if they take out a boss that their gear 'technically' should not be able to do. This falls into my "To each their own" game play style.

Well...perhaps I misjudged. The rephrasement narrows the field and brings clarity. I relent. I have played with wipers before, and in that case, I must admit stronger labels than idiot have surfaced. Game on.

That's not the problem for most people, lets say you played the first few months of TBC and then quite for some reason. You then want to start play and raid again with your fellow ma8s that already do have Black Temple on farm. You would haft to eaither join a random guild with random people, then when you've got the attunment you leave that guild and join your ma8s again. This can be a nasty proces and unfair to the guild used to get the attunement.

Also, sure it all depends on what your setup looks for kara. It's not like you can bring a green geared tank and have T4/5/6 quality healers thiking they can outheal the damage, but on the otherhand the warrior can dps without problem. It might not contribut much to a Kara raid but it's not really like you need anything close to 10 people to clear Karazhan and a lot of people value friends more then fast progress.