World of Warcraft

Upcoming AE DPS and Paladin Changes, Blue Posts

Today appears to be a big day for news, so we may be updating this as the day progresses with more news.

Upcoming AE DPS Changes

Quote from: Ghostcrawler (Source)

There is definitely a lot of AE (area effect damage) going on in World of Warcraft dungeon runs at the moment. We’re not too worried about it for now – on the contrary it’s nice to see so many people doing the level-up dungeons on the way to level 80. If we find that AE tank + AE damage strategy (with no sheeping, sapping or other crowd control) is the only way people are running heroics and raids, then we’ll probably make some changes, but for now we’re content to just see what happens.

Having said all that, we feel like a few groups are being left out of the AE fun, which makes them of less utility in the 5-player dungeons. We aren’t able to provide a lot of details yet, but here are some upcoming changes we’re making.

Shaman – we are removing the threat component from Fire Nova Totem and Magma Totem and increasing the damage from Magma Totem. This should provide the Elemental shamans in particular with some formidable AE.

Rogue – we are removing the cooldown from Fan of Knives and adjusting the damage calculation slightly to make daggers more useful for this ability.

Druid – we are adding Swipe (Cat) as a baseline ability.

As is the case with most multi-target abilities, these three should be something you want to use when faced with groups, but never against single targets. Fan of Knives and Swipe, for example, don’t grant combo points so they should never be a core part of the rotation against single targets (like most bosses).

These changes will be available in the next minor content update, so keep an eye out for the next PTR push.

Consolidated list of upcoming Paladin changes

Quote from: Ghostcrawler (Source)

We have already announced or suggested all of these changes would be forthcoming in the next minor content patch. I thought I would list them all in one place for ease of use.

Divine Shield: Penalty changed so that all damage done is reduced by 50% instead of a attack speed penalty.

1) Divine Protection no longer causes an attack penalty. Divine Shield's penalty was changed to 50% less damage done by the paladin.

2) Sacred Duty: This Protection talent no longer affects the attack penalty of Divine Shield and Divine Protection, but grants additional bonus Stamina.

3) Avenging Wrath, Divine Shield, Divine Protection, and Hand of Protection have a shared, 30-second cooldown. The Forbearance effect is no longer triggered by Avenging Wrath.

4) Judgement of Wisdom now returns a percentage of base mana instead of a percentage of max mana.

5) All mana drain effects now return a percentage of max enemy mana (making mana drains less punishing to paladins and other characters without large mana pools.)

6) Judgements of the Pure: This Holy talent now increases the damage done by Seals and Judgements.

7) All paladins receive a single-target taunt (name TBD) as a base ability.

Example of change (Source)

Since this seems confusing:

Before:

Drain Mana on a mage with 15,000 mana drains 2500 mana (16% of their mana)
Drain Mana on a paladin with 5000 mana drains 2500 mana (50% of their mana)

After:

Drain Mana on a mage with 15,000 mana drains 3000 mana (20% of their mana)
Drain Mana on a paladin with 5000 mana drains 1000 mana (20% of their mana)

Those are not real numbers -- just indicating the concept of what the change will do.

Blue Posts

Feel free to share your thoughts on the Grizzly Hills post in particular.

Why does Grizzly Hills suck so much? (Source)

I personally enjoyed Grizzly Hills. While it may have been a bit more frustrating if I didn't have my flying mount, I enjoyed the stories and atmosphere.

Loot Distribution (Source)

We view loot distribution at least in part as a social issue. You are always going to run into situations where someone wants to roll against you on an item that is of questionable value to them.

As far as two classes legitimately needing the same item, we view that as a good thing. It's a better place to be than when items always drop that nobody can use.

Druid

Savage Roar to persist through shapeshifting (Source)

Q u o t e:
- Are there plans to make Savage Roar persist through shapeshifting, but only affect cat form? This is mainly a PvP issue, but certainly has application in PvE as well, should we need to off tank for 3-5 seconds, battle res, off heal, feral charge, bash, etc. Though I'd mainly like to see this for PvP, since it'd be too risky to use SR if shapeshifting kills it, and it's a huge part of what makes feral druid DPS scale correctly. Ghostcrawler hinted that it'd be reasonable to give it the "dash treatment"... any more thoughts on this line?

Yes, we are making this change.

New Feral Mana talent (Source)

It will probably be something like Primal Tenacity reducing the cost of Bear Form, Cat Form, and Dire Bear Form by 17/33/50% in addition to its current effects.

Shaman

Possible Future AoE Spell (Source)

We might still do an AE spell for Elemental as well, but that is further down the road. Let me be clear that shamans are intended to be a totem-using class. I would not expect a lot of changes that let you opt out of using totems. Instead we want to make them fun, easy and worth the effort. We did consider the problem of having to run up to AE, but this is what several specs do already -- mages to use Arcane Explosion for example. We talked to a lot of Elemental shamans who thought it wouldn't be a problem. Also remember than when a mage channels Blizzard, that is all she is doing. Totems do damage in addition to your spells.

Our goal is not to make every spec in the game awesome at AE damage. Our goal is to give you a button you can push to contribute in some way. We think Elemental shamans need to fill this role more than the rogues or Feral druids however, since they tend to compete for slots more against warlocks and mages, who have excellent AE. Our goal is for Elemental to be there as well. This may not get them there 100%, but it's a good improvement over nearly 0% which is where they stand today. :)

As far as whether you can AE too much, as I said, that is something we're keeping an eye on. Even Naxx is considered an entry-level raid and not the kind of place that requires Sunwell (or even Black Temple) -level coordination. For now it's nice to see so many players with the option to run 5-player instances and entry level raids. I would not expect the strategy in Ulduar and Icecrown to be "I'll Swipe while you guys Blizzard. Volley and Hurricane down all the trash."

Rogue

Current DPS (Source)

Rogue dps seems to be high in heroics and raids. We are not seeing the case where rogues get skipped over for these runs.

I can understand rogues feeling left out when so many groups are AE'ing their way through the lower level 5-player instances at the moment. We don't expect that strategy to continue to Naxx however.

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  • Tue, Dec 2 2008 2:13 PM ()

    feral druid cat needs a aoe swipe be cool but if it cost to much engery like most of there ablites u only get like 3 or 4 moves then u out of engery and your dps sucks (thats why i resto)they need better energy gain back and not cool downs to get it new talent in tree be good

  • goamer said 
    Tue, Dec 2 2008 8:02 AM ()

    aint used CC yet. feral, retadin, healadin, hunter, hunter. Badge SSC geared with some upgrades from WotLk..

    Have tried other group make ups that didnt work out as well.. Good tank Good healer is all ya need for an AE romp through heroics.

  • SizqoX69 said 
    Tue, Dec 2 2008 4:36 AM ()

    wait wat about the buff from blessings of kings it only does 2% and not the improved blessing of 10%

  • Tue, Dec 2 2008 4:24 AM ()

    Grilly Hills was the best place to lvl. LOL

  • Kody said 
    Mon, Dec 1 2008 4:35 PM ()

    FYI: The "shared cooldown" is not the same as a cooldown.  It works similarly to trinkets; i.e. using one triggers a temporary 30-second cooldown on the others; their natural cooldowns remain the same.

  • smartz85 said 
    Mon, Dec 1 2008 8:24 AM ()

    "3) Avenging Wrath, Divine Shield, Divine Protection, and Hand of Protection have a shared, 30-second cooldown. The Forbearance effect is no longer triggered by Avenging Wrath. "

    Umm....wasn't the point of such a long cooldown was to prevent continuous use of such protective spells? I mean, with this they can basically be invincible every 2 minutes as soon as the debuff time is over, instead of every 4 minutes when the cooldown ends. I believe this is gonna be abused very much in PvP, and to the bane of almost every class. I mean, they increased the cooldown of Rogues' Cloak of Shadows from 1 minute to 1 and a half minutes because of the extremely helpful advantage against classes who rely on debuffs and spell damage. And as a rogue I can definitely say that like some of the posters here have said that Rogues' DPS is hardly at the top anymore; Fury Warriors, Hunters and magic classes like Mages and Warlocks have been out-DPSing us for a while. Everyone cries about "Rogues are overpowered" and such, and I admit Killing Spree and Dismantle gives us slight advantages, but having to rely on nearly only melee damage and low armor and limited defensive skills (Evasion only against physical DPS, Cloak for magic, and Vanish works well as long you are not in a AoE zone)with relatively long cooldowns, no one should complain about US being overpowered.

  • Sun, Nov 30 2008 8:54 AM ()

    "3) Avenging Wrath, Divine Shield, Divine Protection, and Hand of Protection have a shared, 30-second cooldown. The Forbearance effect is no longer triggered by Avenging Wrath. "

    Oh yeah! Bringing divine shield's cooldown from 4 minutes to 30 seconds really is going to rock the house, as that is one of the most usefull abilities when in a tight spot.....now we can keep penetrating even more tight spots! Thanks blizz! =P

  • Sun, Nov 30 2008 6:47 AM ()

    And guess what, its all being discussed on US servers again...

    Does everyone really has to go out and buy a US server subscription, just so their voice will be heard on the forum?

  • Sun, Nov 30 2008 4:11 AM ()

    sry, forgot to add: and i doubt they can increase the stamina that much to make up for the loss

  • Sun, Nov 30 2008 4:10 AM ()

    2) Sacred Duty: This Protection talent no longer affects the attack penalty of Divine Shield and Divine Protection, but grants additional bonus Stamina.

    it must be a joke! seriously... paladin tanks need the divine protection, like warrior's need shield wall. i agree, that it is overpowered a bit, 4 min cd on -50% dmg taken, but we lose nearly half of our tps while taking less dmg... nerf paladins ftl

  • Chrome67 said 
    Sat, Nov 29 2008 3:22 PM ()

    For 4 years now all I've heard is folks wanting more dps.  In a previous post about holy priests I explained the mentality base where the need for damage dealing comes from but now the problem is exacerbated by the dev's not thinking "out of the box" so to speak.  Instead of focusing on "who does the most damage" as the primary chest-thumping boast, a new direction might need to be included in what's seeming to be a group-think environment at Blizz.  Personally I would like to see someone bragging about how they can keep a boss from doing any damage at all, or laid them out on their backs over and over, kinda like folks used to brag about stun-locking from a rogue.  I am always more impressed by folks coming up with creative ways to address situations with skills usually thought of as unusable or trite.  Mind-control was originally like this until everyone started running opponents off cliffs.  Combo effects such as rogues reducing armor to less than 0 perhaps and increasing crit chances for others w/ melee weapons would be something encouraging (I know it sorta already exists, but it needs a bit more I think).  Stuff like that...

    An even more fun way to make lil things effective is to keep the "Bag of marbles" from a 7th lvl Elwynn Forest quest and use it against tough bosses later on. www.wowdb.com/item.aspx :)

  • turbare said 
    Sat, Nov 29 2008 5:39 AM ()

    "I can understand rogues feeling left out when so many groups are AE'ing their way through the lower level 5-player instances at the moment. We don't expect that strategy to continue to Naxx however."

    To get to Naxx you need a bit of crafted gear and a bit of badge gear. Good luck running heroics as a rogue though.

  • Aaberg said 
    Sat, Nov 29 2008 4:12 AM ()

    "Why does Grizzly Hills suck so much?"

    I don't get this at all. It was/is my favourite zone of all in WoW. But then again; I might just be a sucker for idyllic redwood forests.

  • mexam123 said 
    Sat, Nov 29 2008 2:15 AM ()

    how do i add qh to wow account

  • mexam123 said 
    Sat, Nov 29 2008 2:15 AM ()

    how do i add qh to wow account

  • Tue, Nov 25 2008 6:25 PM ()

    "I dont believe I'm wrong when I say the rogues have just been totally left out of the expansion."

    You have to realize that with Rogues being the undeniable OP class before WotLK, you can't expect the buffs that other classes got. In a general sense, some of those buffs just brought them up to your level.

    Also it could be worse; they buffed Paladins since they were so weak before, and since then they've done nothing but nerf them. Yes, some might even say that Ghostcrawler's "into the ground" remark turned out not to be a joke after all.

  • Tue, Nov 25 2008 1:53 PM ()

    to araghious..

    thank u for ur opinion m8 and i respect it and tottaly agree with it..the thing is that b4 wotlk i used to have the same spec and still get high rank in dps..its just now the dps on other classes scaled differently..i dont say sub is a good pve spec  (by all means no its not) but at least it should produce a decent amount of dps.i get raped by tanks guys..and im not stupid nor skillless i had grull pugs  which gruul died in 6th growth and was 5th on dps. under sp and warlocks. stealth doesnt even work anymore not to mension cloak of shadows...as MRFORD said..give us abreak ..... really guys this is to any1.. who of u got -5% dodge? or had his shadowstep nerfed stealth not working and cloak of shadows???i wanna see a pally that bublles and it doesnt happen,wanna see a druud change form and not change, a warrior charge and not charging..pls do something blizzy

    ive been a rogue for more than 2 years and i feel the difference

  • Morgomir said 
    Tue, Nov 25 2008 1:13 PM ()

    stealth is bugged right now

    if u are going to go to dungeons as sublety u have to have Honor Among Thieves

    my room mate just spams 5 point eviscerates all night with all the free combo points

  • mrford said 
    Tue, Nov 25 2008 12:30 PM ()

    I dont believe I'm wrong when I say the rogues have just been totally left out of the expansion. FOK is good but everyone can get out of stuns now . all pets seem to spot me even with the added points in the tree for stealth which is crazy considering that was the  talent that makes a rogue unique. and we have to put points in it for it to be any use. let alone mages even have a stealth now . Warriors only have a 10 sec cool down on ww.Mages get a instant refresh for their cooldowns.and the armour is rediculious I have a priest that has 2000 more armour than my rogue because of the inner fire buff. Give the rogues a break please and add something descent for them. I really hate to sound like a complainer but when is the last time anyone has seen a rogue on top of the damage list in bg ?  to busy hiding waiting for a bogus energy refresh.  I guess we can all just use Deathknights,Druids,and mages.

  • Tue, Nov 25 2008 8:07 AM ()

    Hmm... [Shaman – we are removing the threat component from Fire Nova Totem and Magma Totem and increasing the damage from Magma Totem. This should provide the Elemental shamans in particular with some formidable AE.]

    Creaps is right; this will only help the other 2 specs. Resto especially but even enhance should see a boost in dps.

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