Forte Disbands: What Makes WoW Guilds Crumble?

Strawb — Sat, 07 Jun 2008 07:03:27 GMT

Because a guild disbands doesn't mean they can't come back. Even though all of these guilds have disbanded, and a lot of the players have stopped playing Wow, I still think quite a few will return with WotLK. Some people are curious. :)

Though, sad to see another great PvE guild disband.

Forte Disbands: What Makes WoW Guilds Crumble?

Zyuu — Sat, 07 Jun 2008 07:03:26 GMT

Indeed, there's also the reason of WoW becoming too "casual" for some. MMO's are evolving. Hmmm that's an idea for another article..

Forte Disbands: What Makes WoW Guilds Crumble?

Noahsteadpup — Sat, 07 Jun 2008 07:03:25 GMT

Well, I've played WoW, AoC, LotRo, DDO, EverQuest, and even Runescape (5 years ago =/)
And in my opinion, WoW just doesn't cut it anymore.
Compared to Runescape, sure, the graphics are hella better. But compared to LotRo or DDO, they're ***. Graphics aren't everything, but they are for sure a big part. As you stated in your article, WoW has been slow in new content. And the main reason I think all these guilds are disbanding is the intensity of being in it. WoW is the self proclaimed best MMORPG, or atleast the players think so. So when your in the best guild in the best game, thats hardcore right? The stress of being in these guilds is on a higher level of magnitude we can't comprehend. The members are expected to farm daily, (I'm going to assume) and some of them have a life outside the game. Sounds to me like these guilds are looking for unemployed adults who play the game all day. Thats a rare thing. The point I'm trying to get across is that.. I guess I could use a clever saying here.. The bigger they are, the harder they fall.

Forte Disbands: What Makes WoW Guilds Crumble?

renegadeirish — Sat, 07 Jun 2008 07:03:24 GMT

Grats to Forte, and good luck with the future.

I have played for some great guilds on Frostmane, alliance side.
But i have to admit, on SHADOWBANE, we had a great guild, called TEMPEST.
it wasnt the biggest guild, COS was, but it was the toughest guild for PVP>
Many of the old guys still keep in contact, reallife takes place over a game, but still we manage to get few minutes in gaming once in while.
Ill take time to say hi to the old guys, from Shadowbane:
To, Kulgann (worlds best pvper), Sabrina, Nox, Karielle, Reyan, Stone, Dave and Gaspr and the rest of the TEMPEST guys, thanks for all the years, 5 years of great fun.
see ya on WOW or whereever...

Lauriedhue or LD

Forte Disbands: What Makes WoW Guilds Crumble?

dietx — Sat, 07 Jun 2008 07:03:23 GMT

I will have to just say that this kind of thing is always going to happen.
I myself, use to Raid Naxxramas days after release, farming daily for repair gold and bones for Argent Dawn. Once we finished Naxx, WoW seemed to progress slowly, as if content was rarely pushed out. Now, i am a little more casual of a Raider (college...wife...etc) and I am starting to realize, Blizzard isn't as slow as many think they are for releasing; it all depends on where your at. We will always have people complaining about new content, when a boss like Kil'jaeden goes down in first days, but really, the dungeons and bosses are so diverse and unique, that other games like Everquest, that release Expansions regularly, couldn't dream of; and if wow was like that, instead of saying "ugh content is slow," we would instead be complaining such as "wow this content sucks."

Basically all im trying to say is to those that are phased by a guild like this disbanding, don't be. WotLK is right around the corner, and only the amazingly hardcore really can say that the content is slow to where it pains you. Not to mention, World of Warcraft is on a Montly Subscription plan, take a break and do something else between patches, you don't have to play 24/7, Seven days a week, 365 days a year.

Forte Disbands: What Makes WoW Guilds Crumble?

Xinc — Sat, 07 Jun 2008 07:03:22 GMT

Good Going all this while Forte. I wish all of you good luck for anything you do in future.

__________________________________
Nothing Lasts Forever.

Forte Disbands: What Makes WoW Guilds Crumble?

solor — Sat, 07 Jun 2008 07:03:21 GMT

When i raise my hands away from guild in that i invitested 3 years of my time, work and nerves, where i was here from 1st MC run and never (intetionaly) missed progress raid, then you know something must be wrong :<

Forte Disbands: What Makes WoW Guilds Crumble?

radioactive21 — Sat, 07 Jun 2008 07:03:20 GMT

Time. It's just how things run their course, people find other things and move on. WoW has been a successful run, but people are starting to look elswhere, much like anyone would having spent so much time playing one thing would, time to find something else.

Forte Disbands: What Makes WoW Guilds Crumble?

saberwork — Sat, 07 Jun 2008 07:03:19 GMT

I think it is largely inevitable that most guilds will fold. Blizzard has avoided introducing governance mechanisms that would make it possible for guilds to really adapt effectively over time and grow very large. I think this is intentionally designed to make it very hard for large, powerful guilds to develop that can marshal players to influence Blizzard itself. Think of it as Ford introducing workplace rules that make it difficult to form and govern unions.

First and foremost among these rules is the concept of the guild master as monarch. The game gives the GM all power over the guild, and no structural mechanism to distribute this power (effectively) to the members. There is no voting concept embedded in the guild authority management system to allow the members to express their will. The hierarchy system built into the guild officer system is very primitive and lacks critical management mechanisms needed to make it effective at a large scale. Neither is their a way for members to remove a GM. These fatal governance flaws make it hard for guilds to adapt to very large memberships and changing conditions over time.

Secondly, the game provides no real mechanism for distributing loot according to any sort of enforceable ruleset other than either random luck or raid leader decision. DKP and other systems certainly exist to try and address this shortcoming, but these live outside the game itself and have no real enforcement mechanism within the game that cannot be usurped or abused.

In the end much of what guilds have to depend on is trust among players that have very little real risk for bad behavior. The game intentionally creates constant pressure to trade group benefits for individual gain, such as in PVP battlegrounds, and this extends into guilds in many ways.

Forte Disbands: What Makes WoW Guilds Crumble?

Fugazi — Sat, 07 Jun 2008 07:03:18 GMT

TBC is guild killer, it killed mine too. We got to BT/Hyjal around patch 2.2 and got feed up with TBC *** - here goes 1,5 year old guild.

Problem? Well:
1) PvP vs PvE items - now PvE items are mostly useless in PvP (unless you are rogue), there is no reward like it was before TBC
2) Some may say "I am here to beat content" - that is true to some point, but again you beat it and then? You farm it for 6+ months. It should be T1 then T2 3 months later then T3 3 months later etc. Not T1 and unfinished T2 at start, T3 6 months later, T4 1 year later... Content is made WAY too slow for money they make.
3) Guild management is ***. Recruitment is hell. Attuments even made it worse, they are gone now but who cares now? Pre-TBC you could fill your 40-man with no-skilled friends or people like that and you were able get to twin emps and kill them and take 2-3 bosses in naxx. In TBC you can't do that anymore, same guild can probably get as far as lurker and loot reaver.

Forte Disbands: What Makes WoW Guilds Crumble?

NeVeRLiFt — Sat, 07 Jun 2008 07:03:17 GMT

I think if Blizz fixed the loot tables and how loot drops this would not happen.

No one likes raiding 2-8hrs and after killing the last boss see loot drop thats for a class thats not even in the raid at that time.
Also the problem with 20-40man raids was the fact all these people go spend hours raiding and only a few people would get any loot at all.

Forte Disbands: What Makes WoW Guilds Crumble?

agespan — Sat, 07 Jun 2008 07:03:16 GMT

I think Blizzard has made a couple of conscious decisions causing a shift in guild dynamics. My first theory is the most obvious one. Blizzard has strong statistical data about which demographic makes up their 12 million plus customers. Now, I may not always be the brightest, but, I would guess that those in the top 2% are not Blizzards largest customer base. As a result, Blizzard has made some very unpopular (from high end raiders perspective) but very smart business decisions by removing the high-end attunement trials.
Unfortunately, I think that many raiders, somewhere down the line, forgot that we were newbies at one point, and feel that wearing the purple-highlighted makes them better than those that are not as well-gear ded. Therefore, when Blizzard nerf's encounters and remove the attunements, it makes their gear worth less because they didn't earn it as much. I believe the end result...is a sense of futility. Why work so hard to only have it nerfed in the near future? The problem? I think these folks are totally raiding and being in it for the wrong reasons.

My second theory is that Blizzard is changing the dungeons primary structure to be a shorter, and exceptionally rewarding experiences. The Raiding Guild is about to change dramatically, since the customer base is mostly casual, the raiding experience is being changed to adapt that trend. Of course, the fanboys of the high enders will continue to promote and encourage making a hooplah over World/Server Firsts, but truth of the matter is that most people don't care who dropped a boss, moreso than what dropped from the boss and the strategies used. The announcement from Blizzard that their dungeons will take an hour to complete and with the rise of the Arena directly reflects Blizzard's primary customers.

In conclusion, I dont think this will end, In fact, I foresee the successful guilds in WoW's future are thoe that promote a casually hardcore raiding style.

I do believe this is positive in that it allows people to experiement and continue to change the current raiding paradigm,

Forte Disbands: What Makes WoW Guilds Crumble?

Frank-Olsen — Sat, 07 Jun 2008 07:03:15 GMT

Remember, It's ONLY a Game ! !

Forte Disbands: What Makes WoW Guilds Crumble?

2rbear — Sat, 07 Jun 2008 07:03:14 GMT

Adonis Excessum will be on top of the charts in WotLK, with World First on Arthas Menethil! :D (it's not forbidden to dream, eh? ;-)

Forte Disbands: What Makes WoW Guilds Crumble?

Suhov — Sat, 07 Jun 2008 07:03:13 GMT

World of Casualcraft is indeed going to becaome more bored and more casual like. I think that WotLK will ruin even more guilds who raid for raid challenge and new boss learning - you can try easer version of any raid with 10-man, and you will have to raid 25-mans only if you want shiny epix and nothing more.