Well, it all started with WoWAce migration to Curse.com. I'll not go into the details of why this migration has been decided and what this will men to authors and addons users, however from the very beginning I didn't miss any chance to raise my critics about it.

I know I've used harsh words, but you can trust me when I say I never insulted anyone. Well, not in a direct way ofc. The worst thing I wrote was about some drunk monkeys dev team, and the fact that in a normal situation the project leader would had been fired.

Anyway, my issues with the so called "migration" was (and is) about how was managed. Let me summarize for those not into the tech details:

Ace used a very efficient revisions and updating system, and its behavior (protocol, revisioning, etc.) was public. We had beautiful open-source updaters, and they were reliable.

Curse Client (CC from now on) is a closed-source project, its behavior is faulty in a number of ways and its insights are at least questionable. It installs addons without giving feedback, it doesn't support a smooth migration from the old system, there isn't a log (there is for real, but users can't access it easily), and so on. In short, it's a software very far from being reliable. It's not just my opinion, everyone is complaining and the number of open bug tickets is still huge.

You could say that this isn't a big issue, every software project have its developing phase. Problem is the "migration" started with the CC in this development stage. Hence I went rampage (and not only me tbh) because with the incoming patch we needed a reliable updating system, not something buggy. Btw, the Curse web site is far from perfect as well, because the "migration" populated it with doubled projects, outdated addons marked as new, and so on. You have to be extra careful and know what you're doing, since the "latest update" date is completely wrong for all the migrated addons. Stuff made for WoW 2.0 and never updated is marked as brand new.

So, I raised a lot of complains, mainly about how the "migration" was managed, and how the whole thing was being lead by project leaders. No clear timelines, no feedbacks to our issues and so on. Just the usual stuff like "we're working for you", "we'll fix sometimes" and so on.

Anyway, this is what's going on. So, why am I cross-posting this open letter?

Simple: because Curse is also deleting the posts that are more "harmful" from their forums. Nice isn't it? Freedom of Speech to its best (see USA Constitution). And they're deleting them without giving notices.

Problem is: WoW Ace was a community, free and open. Curse is a company and the ones using their services are... users. They even have a "Premium" service, that will be not free of charge (price are not yet known) sometime in the near future. The users doesn't know yet what services will remain free and what will have to be paid, and tbh the actual behavior seems exactly like a customer fidelization program before going live with paid services.

Considering that WoW Ace hosted the most used and widespread addons, this "migration" is resulting in a number of top-hits addons distributed only by Curse, as is a company that will make profit out of them. Again, the problem is that Curse is acting as a non-profit organization when they are not, and the users are not considered as customers, like they should be.

Hence, since my posts are mostly deleted from their forums, I have no choice other than cross-post in independent forums. Maybe they'll realize that there is a shift in the relationships now. We're no more leechers, we're the ones that will (maybe) pay.

For the present, I'd suggest to the users to not use Curse Client until its development is finished, as is when:

1) it will have decent logging features

2) it will be able to clean your addons folder

3) it will be smart enough to download the dependancies (e.g. libraries)

4) it will not install Curse Client addon in your folder silently

5) it will not upload data gathered by the Curse Client addon to Curse without notice

6) it will remember its setup

7) it will not try to substitute your addons with the ones in the Curse repositories (e.g., when you manually download stuff from WoWUI or other web sites)

8) it will not have a changelog itself. A new relase has been sent out today as far as I know, but there's not changelog. It can be downloaded from their "normal" client download page but there's no MacOS version yet, even if there IS a MacOS version around. And there's no update on the supposedly working CurseForge project page, as is where the project ase supposed to be managed. Again, poor project management.

And for the authors... Curse program to "feed the authors" is like giving cheap jewelry to the barbarians. Curse is making money out of author's work. It's legal and they're offering a service to the authors, but consider carefully if the benefit you get are compared to the benefits you GIVE to Curse before choosing them.

As for myself... since they've been so kind to me I'm going to cancel my Curse account and I'll just use them as a web site, when and if I'll need them. Of course blocking their advertisements since they make the web site too slow.

Cheers,

Arzach

Cross-posted to: Curse forums, WoW Ace forums, WoW-EU forums. More to come.

I'm going to lock this thread but leave it public, just in case one of the Curse guys want to make a comment on it.

I can assure you that if we compiled a list of users who have been on the recieving end of moderator action, you would be no where near the top. 

I would like to point out that every single bug report or genuine criticism of the Curse Client made on the forum is left alone to run its course. However, posts that purposely set out to slander Curse.com and/or its employees, voluntary staff or members will be met with a deletion, a lock and/or other moderator action.

  Quote:

Originally Posted by Arzach

I know I've used harsh words, but you can trust me when I say I never insulted anyone. Well, not in a direct way ofc. The worst thing I wrote was about some drunk monkeys dev team, and the fact that in a normal situation the project leader would had been fired.

Your post was deleted because it was not constructive in any means, and suggesting someone should be fired is ridiculous.  If you knew how much Kaelten and Kolie have been busting their asses to make sure this transition goes as smooth as possible you'd probably post differently.

  Quote:

Originally Posted by Arzach

Ace used a very efficient revisions and updating system, and its behavior (protocol, revisioning, etc.) was public. We had beautiful open-source updaters, and they were reliable.

And CurseForge operates under that same system.  It's simply going to take some time to wade through 6,000 projects to ensure that each one is unique, created by the actual author, and something not out of date.  WoWAce and Curse were originally very different websites, so bringing them both together is a challenge that we have to overcome, but it is going to happen.

  Quote:

Originally Posted by Arzach

Curse Client (CC from now on) is a closed-source project, its behavior is faulty in a number of ways and its insights are at least questionable. It installs addons without giving feedback, it doesn't support a smooth migration from the old system, there isn't a log (there is for real, but users can't access it easily), and so on. In short, it's a software very far from being reliable. It's not just my opinion, everyone is complaining and the number of open bug tickets is still huge.

There is a log in 2.0.0.14 that timestamps all activity in the client related to Addons.  You can find it by clicking the "Activity" button.  We have a lot of client users, and a lot of the "huge" number of open bug tickets are duplicates, but we still want to communicate with each individual user to gather as much information as possible related to that bug.

  Quote:

Originally Posted by Arzach

You could say that this isn't a big issue, every software project have its developing phase. Problem is the "migration" started with the CC in this development stage. Hence I went rampage (and not only me tbh) because with the incoming patch we needed a reliable updating system, not something buggy. Btw, the Curse web site is far from perfect as well, because the "migration" populated it with doubled projects, outdated addons marked as new, and so on. You have to be extra careful and know what you're doing, since the "latest update" date is completely wrong for all the migrated addons. Stuff made for WoW 2.0 and never updated is marked as brand new.

This is a very valid concern that I'm going to bring up today.  WoWAce stuff that's old should definitely not be displayed as new on Curse.

  Quote:

Originally Posted by Arzach

Simple: because Curse is also deleting the posts that are more "harmful" from their forums. Nice isn't it? Freedom of Speech to its best (see USA Constitution). And they're deleting them without giving notices.

Freedom of Speech goes both ways.  At any rate, I've already addressed why your post was deleted above.  You should have received an email about it being deleted.

  Quote:

Originally Posted by Arzach

Problem is: WoW Ace was a community, free and open. Curse is a company and the ones using their services are... users. They even have a "Premium" service, that will be not free of charge (price are not yet known) sometime in the near future. The users doesn't know yet what services will remain free and what will have to be paid, and tbh the actual behavior seems exactly like a customer fidelization program before going live with paid services.

Nothing on the website will all the sudden become fee-based.  The only thing that will be fee-based that is currently free (due to premium preview) is the auto-update feature.

  Quote:

Originally Posted by Arzach

Considering that WoW Ace hosted the most used and widespread addons, this "migration" is resulting in a number of top-hits addons distributed only by Curse, as is a company that will make profit out of them. Again, the problem is that Curse is acting as a non-profit organization when they are not, and the users are not considered as customers, like they should be.

I'm sorry you feel that way.  I really am.  We're as far from a "company" as you can get.  I use our website for Addons just like you do, and probably play WoW just as much or more than most who use the website, so I know the impacts these changes will make.

  Quote:

Originally Posted by Arzach

For the present, I'd suggest to the users to not use Curse Client until its development is finished, as is when:

1) it will have decent logging features

2) it will be able to clean your addons folder

3) it will be smart enough to download the dependancies (e.g. libraries)

4) it will not install Curse Client addon in your folder silently

5) it will not upload data gathered by the Curse Client addon to Curse without notice

6) it will remember its setup

7) it will not try to substitute your addons with the ones in the Curse repositories (e.g., when you manually download stuff from WoWUI or other web sites)

8) it will not have a changelog itself. A new relase has been sent out today as far as I know, but there's not changelog. It can be downloaded from their "normal" client download page but there's no MacOS version yet, even if there IS a MacOS version around. And there's no update on the supposedly working CurseForge project page, as is where the project ase supposed to be managed. Again, poor project management.

1. 2.0.0.14 supports a viewable activity log from within the client.
2. I'm not sure what you mean here.  Care to elaborate?
3. This will pretty much never happen by default.  It's one of my gripes with the WAU: I had all kinds of stuff on my Addons list in-game that really wasn't needed.  We'll likely implement a "lib" or "no-lib" option soon.
4. See #1.  There's now an activity log available.
5. This is something we're working on.  We've had many requests like this and it's already on the TODO list.
6. Again, I'm not entirely sure what you mean here.  Can you elaborate?
7. This is based entirely on what you tell the client to do.  If you tell the client it's ok, then it will update that Addon.  It shouldn't be doing it without you acknowledging it, though.
8. There should be a changelog.  If not, I'll ask why, because the functionality is there for a changelog to display.