Quote:

Originally Posted by Naaria

If your spot on Wibbit, why is it that action wasn't taken as early on as you mentioned if it was 'such a big problem'. Besides, if they really wanted to solve the problem well (as i have already said above) they would have come up with a solution, after all, what are they actually gaining from this? a large majority of players anger of course, priceless... and it brings so many benefits... not.

I'm not sure exactly what more you want from this this, they attempted to open communications which went no where, and then once that failed they put an embargo on them, this happens in the realy world with much more serious issues all the time.

Firstly.. I can appreciate the Why's, the What's and all the other reasons behind what has happened.

BUT...

Cmon on fellas, wouldnt it have been smart to have something up and in place... (rephrase.. SOMETHING THAT WORKS) for the several mac and linux users who have posted today? Not to mention all the windows users.. ;)

Anyway.. time to go manually install..

Thanks for a great patch day ;) 

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Originally Posted by Wibbit

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Originally Posted by bekmonsterjr

Firefox + Adblock = no ads + more bandwidth than the client. 

 

Didn't think that through all the way yourself did you?

actualy i did, even though your ad blocker stops you from seeing the ad, the request is still sent to the server to load one, so the client (in this case curse) still gets paid.

Actually... it blocks the download.  So no they don't.  You should read up on adblock and how it works.

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Originally Posted by Tanek

It astounds me that some people can't see how this works and why Curse/WOWI had to do something. I'll try to explain it;

There's this thing called bandwidth that Curse and WOWI have to pay for every month. Bandwidth is used whenever anyone comes to those sites and downloads an addon.  Let's say that you download Pitbull from Curse, it costs Curse $1.00 for you to download Pitbull because of the bandwidth that you're using. Now, if you come directly to Curse to download Pitbull the cost of the bandwidth usage is mitigated by the ads that are on the download pages. The advertisers probably pay Curse $1.02 for you hitting those pages with your browser. So, Curse makes a whopping two cents which probably has to go to other overhead.

Now, and here's the crucial point, if you used WoW Matrix to download Pitbull you are not going to Curse.com, they are not generating any ad revenue from you downloading Pitbull. Instead, Curse has LOST $1.00 that they have to pay their provider. So, imagine what happens on Patch day; 50,000 people fire up WoW Matrix and get Pitbull downloaded without ever going anywhere near Curse.com. No ad revenue is generated from those 50,000 downloads, instead Curse.com is in the hole $50,000.  Curse.com and WOWI are not run by billionaires who get warm feelings from throwing money away so all the little WoW players can get their addons, they have to pay their service providers every month for the bandwidth that is being used. If they can't pay that monthly, these web sites will go down and there will  be no central repositories for addons. What happens then? Well, guess what, WoW Matrix won't have anywhere to pull the addons from and it becomes a useless piece of software.

The above explanation is very, very basic and the monetary amounts I used are just there to make it easier to grasp for people, but it's really at the core of why Curse and WOWI did what they did.

If anyone doesn't understand this, they are half dimwits. That was the clearest explanation I've seen.

@Tanek, don't bother with the truth, the general public just does not care. Just like most people these days all they want is free and easy with no worries from where it comes from. So they are more than willing to keep using an application that in the end will cause sites like this to become a pay site. People need to realize that this argument has nothing to do with the ease of downloading addons but the way that WoWMatrix goes about it.

An analogy might be more appropriate for some people. Using WoWMatrix to download addons is like splicing into your neighbors phone wires and making long distance phone calls on his account.

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Originally Posted by teek5449

@Tanek, don't bother with the truth, the general public just does not care. Just like most people these days all they want is free and easy with no worries from where it comes from. So they are more than willing to keep using an application that in the end will cause sites like this to become a pay site. People need to realize that this argument has nothing to do with the ease of downloading addons but the way that WoWMatrix goes about it.

An analogy might be more appropriate for some people. Using WoWMatrix to download addons is like splicing into your neighbors phone wires and making long distance phone calls on his account.

nice attitude mate.. all i said as a number of posters here have said, and most of the blizz forum has said.. we understand why you did what you did, I dont think everyone should be on you for that.. but the curse client has been giving me problems also, which is why i uninstalled it and went manually instead. Would have just been easier, if curse had an easier functioning addon client that everyone could work with.

Gotta be able to see from both points of view for this dude.

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Originally Posted by teek5449

 

An analogy might be more appropriate for some people. Using WoWMatrix to download addons is like splicing into your neighbors phone wires and making long distance phone calls on his account.

While Tanek laid it out very plainly and so that even the simplist 12 year old mind could understand, you've done it even better, Teek, for those children who say "I use WoWM and don't care what they're doing right or wrong, I just want my addons" yet fail to realize, as you said in the first part of your post that by them using WoWM, they're helping the downfall of Curse and WoWI, so that in the long run we'll all be using Blizzard's default UI... a world I would not want to live in /shiver

I have never had an issue with the client so there are other factors in play. Bandwidth alone for the week following a major content patch is always at a premium and people are complaining that they can not update their free addons is just silly. As far as a non functioning client, hmmm.... it's free get over it. You are not being forced to use Curse.com or the Curse client or even addons in fact so 'gift horse & mouth' come to mind.

I mean no offense to anyone personally but in general it seems that we have become a "I want it now, it has to be perfect, and I'm not willing to pay a dime for it" society. Just keep in mind that everything that we are talking about is being provided by other people to us for FREE. I am willing to put up with a little extra effort to keep it free. If that means that I have to update all of my addons one at a time then so be it. IT'S FREE.

  Quote:

Originally Posted by teek5449

I have never had an issue with the client so there are other factors in play. Bandwidth alone for the week following a major content patch is always at a premium and people are complaining that they can not update their free addons is just silly. As far as a non functioning client, hmmm.... it's free get over it. You are not being forced to use Curse.com or the Curse client or even addons in fact so 'gift horse & mouth' come to mind.

I mean no offense to anyone personally but in general it seems that we have become a "I want it now, it has to be perfect, and I'm not willing to pay a dime for it" society. Just keep in mind that everything that we are talking about is being provided by other people to us for FREE. I am willing to put up with a little extra effort to keep it free. If that means that I have to update all of my addons one at a time then so be it. IT'S FREE.

The only thing im not willing to pay a dime for is something that doesnt work for me.. whether it be any of my computers or the product itself.. so if something that maybe had the "ease of use" that WM had.. with the "content" that you guys, along with WI have.. then id have no problem what so ever.. making donations to the site.. for bandwidth purposes if nothing else.. and.. although reading thru the forums.. it doesnt seem like there are many adults that play.. lol we both know that there are.. and im sure others would donate too. I do however have family members that play that are not pc literate.. and appreciate all teh help and ease they can get with things like this...

I edited this post. I still think what Curse is doing is technically illegal, but understand their concern. I just do not see how under the rules governing the use of addons with Blizzard that Curse has a leg to stand on. If they can not host the addons on donations, technically I think the site goes bye bye. Sorry. I explained this at length, but then got off on a tangent and would like to leave it at this.

It's all about advertising.

**edited** 

...they want the money from the adds.

That's all.

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Originally Posted by camealion

It was posted here on Curse and WoWinterface yesterday.

Curse and WoWInterface working together to help protect our authors and other site-users

 not to be rude  to Curse on there own chat site "BUT"  everyone has been letting WM do it for a long time now and this is the first I have herd of a "bandwith" problem from it.  (not saying there hasn't been talk of it but I read a lot of wow info sites and have not seen it )  But it is funny how this comes up and all of a sudden WM is infrenging on the authors rights?  Or is it that Blizzard is about to start inforcing there new rule on only letting free addons on WoW and a way around that has been found and some sites are gonna help the authors still get donations ( Which I think they should get to comp there time and expenses) and WM isn't willing or able to play along ???   Please explain to me how it is any diffrent for WM  to help 100,000 players (random number) download from Curse or for 100,000 players to personally download then from Curse???   

 There have been some on here that have bashed WM  and that is fine  no one says you have to use it  but how can you say that I shouldn't use WM?  now Curse and the other sites have the right to not let WM use there site for addons, but lets face it WM is not really hurting anyone, maybe WM should recognize the sites they use to get the addons from, they already recognize the authors  and no one can tell me there is not a way for everyone to work out the "Bandwidth" problem if there is one!!!  I gave 3 wow accounts  and several players on each account, WM makes it so convient to check and update my addons on all of them every week during Blizzards Tuesday downtime and still have plenty of time to brouse all the weeks wow gossip and news.  

Now I will have to download all my addons Manualy because after getting my main account hacked and everything slolen from all my toons on it  and the max they could steal from my guilds bank   after using the CC to get Addons (and before someone says how do you know it was from curse's CC, because my game computer has only ever logged on to wow and curse before the hack   I have a seprate computer that I get on anyother site that doesn't even have wow on it  and only get on wow on my game comp and no one else knows my acc name or password or plays on my acc)  that way I can scan every addon file before I install it on to my second/wow hard drive (and no i cant do that with CC it drives all my anti viruses and file scanners crazy   WM doesn't)  

to make a long story short ( too late!!  :-} )  the only ones that are getting screwed here are the wow gamers that use several addons or have several accounts and toons,  and lets be honest here because of blizzards new addon rule not from anything WM did wrong.   Well I'l getting down off my soapbox now that I said my peace and won't say another word and see what happens. and I'm sure I'll get flamed by all the trolls that have nothing better to do then make smart remarks to posters woth honest concerns and coments but thats ok  I have thick skin and broud shoulders   I can take it  I just concider the source.  

BTW   addon Authors   I am sorry Blizzard has no respect for all your hard work   I sure do   and thanks!!!

' the only ones that are getting screwed here are the wow gamers that use several addons or have several accounts and toons,  and lets be honest here because of blizzards new addon rule not from anything WM did wrong.' 

/Agree with you there dude

Agreed! The only reason I'm here is to find this curse client thingy to download the rest of my addons and I'm not happy! Is it that hard to find or am I a total noob crying in /1 for "where is hogger?"??? Bring to reading every line looking for this client thingy so I can go back and PLAY WOW!

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Originally Posted by bekmonsterjr

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Originally Posted by Wibbit

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Originally Posted by bekmonsterjr

Firefox + Adblock = no ads + more bandwidth than the client. 

 

Didn't think that through all the way yourself did you?

actualy i did, even though your ad blocker stops you from seeing the ad, the request is still sent to the server to load one, so the client (in this case curse) still gets paid.

 

Actually... it blocks the download.  So no they don't.  You should read up on adblock and how it works.

actualy i do understand, maybe you should understand how ad's work, you load the page and request is still made but the add is not downloaded. its on the server side that the request is made not the client side, your ad blocker may make it so that you dont see the ad but its still recorded that one was needed. but i have had enough of this of topic topic,

I'm really on the fence here.

I've been using WM a long time. I love it but its got a few bugs I wish they would address - often the "most recent" addon they have is actually an older version. This has been a problem for sometime as far as I can note. What they have is a good solid product for those of us with mulitble acounts, toons and such that use more addons then we care to note. It works accross all platforms - something not every updater out there has. Like today I had some issues with patch and just reset my UI, cleaned the slate as they say. WM was down so i took to looking through Curse and WoWUI - which is DOWN basicly. I got the basics and what I could find, when I gave WM a try I found it up but it also wanted to downgrade addons which were the current ones claiming they needed "updated". Now this is an obvious issue with WM I don't like but its on random ones. I made it even a point after noticing this to try to download all my addons from other sites to see how it would reflect in WM. Not all needed the "update". So its a touch and go thing they need to obviously work on.

Curse is decent but, I still recall from a year or so back when a few hackers went on a spree of putting keyloggers in to exsisting high download addons. So I am warry of curse to maybe the verge of parinoa when downloading stuff from them. Don't get me wrong, the site its self is great, lots of info and such - they have just had seemingly bad security issues in the past. Idk if things are the same but it was a rather rampet problem and I knew of people who were affected by this event. I remember a older updater similar to WM (the name exscapes me) also fell victom to the hackers and it was pulled down because they wanted to provide a product that people could be secure in. They were supposed to be working on a new one, but I can't even recall the people who did it so its a pointless thought right now. That whole event is why I turned to Aceupdater and then to WM. Something that would update my addons and keep me informed on changes - because WM has done that. When Auctioneer became Auctioneer suite it let me know about it without issue when I opened it up.

I'm with so many others though on one point of this, this type of united call should also have gone out  with a " AND LOOK WHAT WE'LL OFFER IN WOWM'S PLACE!! ( insert program more epic then WM)" type of excitment. Give is a product that trumphs WM - not simply say something is in the works, or to use what is there because obviously what is there is not crossplatform user friendly. While yes, it works for many, but unlike WM it doesn't work for everyone without issue. Bugs upon bugs to be worked out - which is not a solid thing to tell people to deal with. Its like calling a CEO an idot, deciding not to let him do his job and in his place make a intern do it.  WTF guys? CC is obviiously a work in progress that should get better so there isn't so many people reporting bugs before you consider doing something thats even going to make your own pushed product look like ****. Its going to turn people away from even using the product your preping for if just because they are going to look at CC and go " Why pay for a piece of crap when your already giving one away for free?" Faster downloads will not make up for the lack of a userfriendly interface or ease of use. And before someone trips out about how Curse is asking people to pay for stuff, WoWUi already has a "Premium access" option. So its basicly been done already curse is just taking the idea and making it their own.

Its a great idea for  CC and WoWUI to do something to protect those that work hard to make/update/maintain addons. But how are they helping really by blocking WM?  I just wish that they would actually be "DOING" something beyond throwing a fit like a spoild child and taking away a means of resorce for so many WoW Users. And for those of you that are dedicated WM users - why not write them? Encourage them to open up to talking to curse and wowui to do something co-op that everyone can aggree to and deal with - cause you know NONE of them will be happy.

I seriously doubt anyone who will talk here will know honestly whats going on - because I doubt anyone truly involved with whats going on is going to talk - we only have what they are willing to say in news posts. For all we know this is a event ment to draw WM in to working with Curse and WoWUI because they couldn't get them any other way. Or its ment to draw attention to Curse and WoWUi away fro WM - either way its rather stupid they can't be adult and find some commonground to work on - I say that about ALL OF THEM too.

Ooooh, so that's what happening.

Sigh.

Well, the nice thing about WoWMatrix was, frankly, how unintrusive it was. Just set off a couple of firewall warnings and that's it.

Curse's client, on the other hand, set off every single security measure on my computer. It practically looked like a rootkit was trying to install itself. I threw it away immediately.

IF that behavior is changed, and it's truly as lightweight as WM is now, I'll go ahead and try it again. But I want some assurance it's not gonna set off all of my serurity measures again.

. . . and I'm understanding the reasoning, but . . .

. . . what is really so special about WM that the devs at curse can't replicate the great experience it provided?

Rewrite the client from scratch, I say.

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Do your research. 1. Unverified Certs. 2. Tracking Cookies

mmk, sure:

Unverified certs: Shouldn't need certs to write software. Most software I know of works fine without them, and AFAIK WM doesn't use them either. Worst case scenario, I should get UAC in Vista if WoW is in Program Files. I have moved WoW to a folder that doesn't need UAC elevation, though.

Tracking Cookies: No reason for them. CC is client side software, not a web page.

  Quote:

Originally Posted by Tanek

It astounds me that some people can't see how this works and why Curse/WOWI had to do something. I'll try to explain it;

There's this thing called bandwidth that Curse and WOWI have to pay for every month. Bandwidth is used whenever anyone comes to those sites and downloads an addon.  Let's say that you download Pitbull from Curse, it costs Curse $1.00 for you to download Pitbull because of the bandwidth that you're using. Now, if you come directly to Curse to download Pitbull the cost of the bandwidth usage is mitigated by the ads that are on the download pages. The advertisers probably pay Curse $1.02 for you hitting those pages with your browser. So, Curse makes a whopping two cents which probably has to go to other overhead.

Now, and here's the crucial point, if you used WoW Matrix to download Pitbull you are not going to Curse.com, they are not generating any ad revenue from you downloading Pitbull. Instead, Curse has LOST $1.00 that they have to pay their provider. So, imagine what happens on Patch day; 50,000 people fire up WoW Matrix and get Pitbull downloaded without ever going anywhere near Curse.com. No ad revenue is generated from those 50,000 downloads, instead Curse.com is in the hole $50,000.  Curse.com and WOWI are not run by billionaires who get warm feelings from throwing money away so all the little WoW players can get their addons, they have to pay their service providers every month for the bandwidth that is being used. If they can't pay that monthly, these web sites will go down and there will  be no central repositories for addons. What happens then? Well, guess what, WoW Matrix won't have anywhere to pull the addons from and it becomes a useless piece of software.

The above explanation is very, very basic and the monetary amounts I used are just there to make it easier to grasp for people, but it's really at the core of why Curse and WOWI did what they did.

  I'm not a computer whiz by any stretch. So a lot of these threads are over my head.  I've been frustrated time and again using CC because of my lack of techinical knowledge. If CC would let me pay to get the ease and simplicity that I get from WM, I'd gladly pay it over and over again.  Then it wouldn't have to be about the lost revenue (like people go to CC for the banners ads anyway. pssh). 

. . . and while we're at it - if Curse and WoW interface are putting their heads together, why is WoW interface creating a separate updater?

I started using the Curse Client in 5/2008. The only problem I had with it was with 2 addons that took a while to update on Curse. So I updated them manually. I'm in IT, so I update more frequently than I probably need to.

So it's been puzzling to me why I haven't had problems when so many have. Now however, I think I've figured it out.

I moved to Curse from Cosmos. Cosmos just wasn't fitting my needs anymore and the Curse site looked far more proffesional. Serindipity.

Before I downloaded the Curse Client I did the following: Made a list of all the add-ons I actually used at the time (I had a lot of junk hanging around), copied out my add-ons and WTF folders, then wiped them clean, I then proceeded to download the curse client and install all the addons I needed. From that point forward the client chugged along in the background and updated my stuff. I've honestly never had it "destroy" anything.

Anyway. I did the above out of learned habit. I would never expect a product to perform well after being installed over an identically purposed product.

Please understand, I do not expect those who have unfamiliarity with computers to have somehow mystically know to do this, nor does this imply that anyone's bad experience is their own fault or imagined. I'm just posting this observation on the off chance that it may help someone. It's the only thing that I can think of that I've done differently to garner such different results in the experience of the client.

Although this is a painful experience for _all_ parties involved, I support Curse and WoWUI in preventing in-line linking.

Respectfully yours.