Addons authros knew that they are writing addons for free, so I don't understand where the all greed for fame and credits is from. If people are curious about who made it, or wanna donate, they will find a way to donate or find info, forcing them to do it is not the best option.

True true Rizzol, however authors said that their names were not by the addon on WM - but if i recall correctly, when you were browsing addons from the list on WM, the authors name was a hyperlink when you clicked on the addon for a description... so WM even had that base covered. 

Same here, i used CC for few weeks and  its a pile of crap.. now i update manualy  if wowM doesnt see it

I have decided that I am going to install it on a virtual machine, and try my best to offer constructive feedback on how CC interoperates with the system.

I am aware of, and agree with, the reasoning behind blocking WM.

So now my objective is to work with the development team of CC to provide a superior experience with CC.

What is the best way to contact the development team of CC?

--CS major, familiar with C/C++, Java, HTML/CSS, general software development principles, and software engineering principles.

Dear Curse,

First let me begin by stating my -severe- distaste for your actions banning Wow-matrix.  Do you have any idea how beneficial it is?  Do you have any idea how crappy the "Curse Client" is?  Do you have any idea how long it's going to take those of us who use more than a handful of addons to track our addons down on the various websites and manually install them?  Do you really think that if we use Wow-Matrix to update our addons that it makes us not come to your website anymore? 

I'll answer my own questions.  It's incredibly beneficial.  It's awful, I used to use it.  Hours.  Nope, we'll still come to your website when we want to investigate new addons or report bugs within updated addons.

Here is my suggestion:  Curse, Wowinterface and Wowmatrix should all get together and talk about how to reopen Wow-matrix to the public and unban them from your websites.  I suggest that Wowmatrix include ads to Curse and Wowinterface within their program and that you all come to a happy agreement so that you're better serving those who come to your websites seeking addons.  By banning Wow-Matrix, without giving us a suitable replacement... you took probably ten steps backwards. 

We all know it doesn't take up as much bandwith as you're saying... and that you're just greedy.  Don't kill a program until you can offer us a decent or better replacement.  I'm about to cut down significantly on the number of addons I use, simply because I don't want to take hours trying to update the 70+ ones I normally run with. 

I applaud your huge step backwards, Curse.  Way to reverse progress and anger a whole lot of people.

  Quote:

Originally Posted by CobraA1

So now my objective is to work with the development team of CC to provide a superior experience with CC.

I've taken a similar position, albeit with a somewhat adversarial slant. I want the client to improve for selfish reasons, and I have no problem with telling the developers that it sucks, when I find it sucking. Still, I think engagement is more productive than avoidance, so...

Guys and gals im a bit tick!

Curse say it uses bandwidth and thats why they blocked it now if i got to curse website and manually instal it from curse website and each page i goto has lots of graphics on it how does that use less bandwidth?

Why doesnt curse one recognise the same addons that have been downloaded from its own site by WM does WM change file names?

Why do Curse say that WM doesnt look after the addon makers? it says who the author is at the bottom on WM?

Why do Curse Client install things i havent asked it to and why does it continue to run once i am finished? WM opens does job and closes surely this puts less strain on a website?

oh one more thing Curse is nothing more than a host of addons for 99% of users curse profits from hosting addons by advertising and the high amount of traffic it gets.

If i write an addon so that every time i die in a lava wave in saff i get an electric shock and my PC blows up and you host it how much money do i get?

Also if some one then decides to take legal action against me for killing there child beucse of the electric shock do you accept responsability?

The answer to the above is zero and no! So why you dont just say we blocked wowmatrix becuase we dont make any money for ourselves from it!

only have one thing to say to Curse "there are NO WMA we know its a lie"

It seems that people who dont understand the economics of the internet as well as the technical issues around the WOWMatrix site are just ranting/crying and not actually looking at the underlying issue.  the issue is that if WOWMatrix continues to do business the way it is, then it can and will eventually stuff out both Curse and WOWInterface.  Once WOWMatrix does that - then like an economic parasite - they will move to another site until they bring it down as well.  There is open source/free source/copyleft codes of conduct that WOWMatrix is not following as well as legal/copyright laws they are breaking. 

Before you post a rant/cry about this situation, read up on the open source community/copyleft as well as IP laws (both national and international).  It is about supporting the WOW Community as a whole.  Blizzard, Curse, WOWInterface and all of the developers of addons need our support.  If WOWMatrix cannot/will not play within the rules of the WOW Community, then they sould not be supported - at the least - - at the most they should be banned.

Why is deep linking bad:  see these links:

http://www2.selu.edu/Academics/FacultyExcellence/Pattie/DeepLinking/

http://www.netlitigation.com/netlitigation/linking.htm

http://www2.selu.edu/Academics/FacultyExcellence/Pattie/DeepLinking/

If you do wnat to use WOWMatrix - then pay WOWInterface and Curse for their lost revenues.

tbh thats bull plop!

its a plain and simple monopoly!

WM isnt an economic parasite any more than curse or any other website providing a hosting service is.

If WM was poo no one would use it and it would be a mute issue. Why must i register to obtain addons from the CC what benefit does this serve me or the programmer? i dont have to do that with WM.

Also no i dont understand the technical issues surronding WM being the spawn of the devil! that is why i asked the question about bandwidth to which i havent seen a simple answer. it all just seems wishywashy excuses. and how WM is breaking any opensource laws i find asoundng tbh as its not claiming ownership of anything anywhere and as far as copyright is concerned that would be taken up with the programmer of the addon not the host as the host has no ownership at all so in essence curse would be infringing on opensource by not allowing access unless you use there own clients (of which they make money from) sort of takes the biscuit out of the term open source.

Infact as i think about it they are essentually profiting from opensource freeware programs and the fact you made the statement regarding paying for lost revenues makes the point quite clearly that its pure greed nothing more nothing less on the part of curse and co.

If curse make a client that doesnt require me to give my details and updates and installs the addons i require and nothing more then i would be happy as i am sure every one else would be also.

  Curse has become all big and powerful they can bully and monoplise the hole thing and keep it to themselves and tbh no matter how much we bitch rant complain they can do it and we can do nothing the only ones with any power is the programmer and maybe some one will come up with a website that does nothing but host addons no content no mindless ramblings no opinion no nothing just a plain and simple host site so that simple tools like wowmatrix can access and do all the work for the gammer and then i wounder would curse still make money?

"An analogy might be more appropriate for some people. Using WoWMatrix to download addons is like splicing into your neighbors phone wires and making long distance phone calls on his account."

@teek5449 - Your analogy is wrong in my opinion... I like this one better.

Kurkse built a house in a nice community full of happy people that liked all kinds of rare and unique foods.  His buddy Willieface lived next to him.  One day Kurkse said "Hey, I know some guys that make a lot of cool food.  I'm a social butterfly too and I like to share all the latest gossip with my friends.  If they bring their food here we can help pay for our expensive new houses we built by having my other buddies come and sell their widgets while people visit our houses!" Kurkse's friend Willieface said "Brilliant!"

So, the next day Kurkse invited all of his food making buddies over to his house.  They like the idea also because they just want to share their tasty food with the community and they're proud of the work they put into making it. So they agree to share their food with the community in both Kurkse and Willieface's houses.  Willieface said "Cool!"

On the following day the food making buddies bring their food over to Kurkse's house and display it in his kitchen.  When they entered the house they met some other friends of Kurkse that were nice and wanted to try and sell them some widgets.  All was well and the house was ready to be opened to the general public to come in a try some food.  Kurkse put out a sign on his front lawn that said "Open house! Free food!".  Passers-by stopped and tried the food and looked at Kurkse's house. "Nice house", they said as they ate the tasty food.  Kurkse's buddies where busily handing out business cards and talking to the visitors as they were eating the food.  One visitor exclaimed "This cheesecake is awesome!"   They guy that made the cheesecake said "Thanks!"  Another visitor said, "Hey!  My cheesecake has a bug in it!"  The cheesecake maker said, "Oh!  I'm sorry, lemme fix that. Here's a new piece."  "Mmmm..." said the visitor, "This is better."

Later on that day Kurkse's buddies gave him some money and said, "Wow, we made a lot of contacts and potential buyers for our widgets.  Thanks for letting us use your house!  Here's a little something for your effort."  Kurkse took the money and paid for his house cleaning and lawn maintenence bills, and a little went into his savings account too.  Willieface got some too and said, "Nice!"

A month or so passed and Kurkse's house became a popular place to hang out and visit and it was the talk of the community.  Kurkse made some improvements to his house and even a special drive thru window that people could easily stop by and pick up their favorite foods.  Kurkse's buddies were making contacts in the living room and his friends were getting popular for all the tasty food they were making.  All was good and everyone was happy. 

Then one day Kurkse got a new neighbor, Mattrex.  Mattrex built a house behind Kurkse's place and his backyard adjoined Kurkse's.  Mattrex visited Kurkse one day because he was hungry and wanted some free food.  He had seen Kurkse's sign.  Mattrex walked over to Kurkse's house thru his back yard and knocked on the door.  Kurkse went to the back door thru the kitchen and met Mattrex.  "Hey!  Come on in and try some food!", said Kurkse.  They shook hands and Mattrex walked to the kitchen and sampled the tasty food.  "Wow this sure is tasty food." said Mattrex.  "Ya, would you like to meet my buddies in the living room?", said Kurkse.  "Nah, I gotta run. Thanks for the food." Kurkse waved goodbye to Mattrex and said "Stop by anytime!"  Mattrex left thru the back door and crossed the backyard to his house.  Matt visited Kurkse's house often after that.

Mattrex was working on his house one day and some friends of his came over to visit.  One of Mattrex's friends said, "Hey man, I'm hungry where's your fridge?"  Mattrex replied, "I don't have one, I just eat at Kurkse's house.  He always has free food."  "Cool, lets go get some food."  "Sweet, do we have to go thru the living room?"  "Nope!"  Matt's friends walked across the backyard to Kurkse's house and opened the backdoor.  They went into the kitchen and ate the food.  Later when they were full they returned to Matt's house and talked.  "That was cool. I'm glad we didn't have to talk to those buddies of Kurkse."  "Ya, it's really easy to just get the food and go."  Matt's friends were happy and they visited him more often after that because they liked the tasty food not to mention the fact that it was free.

Soon, Kurkse began to notice that his backyard was getting a worn walking path and someone had even trampled on his flowers.  "Dang that Matt! His friends are always messing up my lawn!"  Willieface looked at the lawn and flowers and said, "Dude...".  Kurkse called his landscaper over to fix his lawn and replace the flowers.  Kurkse had only been paying for lawn work on his front lawn, but now he had to pay money to have his backyard lawn fixed up too.  Kurkse looked at Willieface with a worried look and said, "Is this happening to your backyard too?".  Willieface nodded his head.

For a while Kurkse put up with Matt's friends and the additional money he was having to pay for the lawnwork.  His friends were happy to share the food and he was still making decent money.  He began to get complaints from his widget selling buddies that they weren't getting as many new contacts.  Kurkse sat and thought about it and wrote a note to his neighbor Matt.  "Dear Matt, Stop having your friends walk across my lawn.", he sent the note to Matt.  Time passed but Matt didn't reply and his friends keep using the pathway.  Eventually, the pathway was well worn and easy to see.  It became quicker and easier than going thru the front door of Kurkse's house and more people were using the path from Matt's house than ever before.

The day before a special food eating holiday, Kurkse and Willieface met and discussed the situation.  "Matt's house is becoming a real problem. We have to do something."  Willieface nodded and said, "Ya!"  Then Kurkse had a brainstorm!  "I know!  Let's build a fence!", shouted Kurkse.  "Ya!", exclaimed Willieface.  So that night Kurkse and Williface built a big wooden fence in their backyards.  The fence was strong and was built to kept people from crossing thru their backyards from Matt's house.  They stood back and admired their worked and then went off to prepare for next day's holiday.

On the day of the big holiday the food was all laid out and there was a lot of excitement in the air.  Slowly people went to Kurkse and Willieface's houses and began the big feast!  Lots of Kurkse's buddies showed up as they knew they would have a good chance to meet a lot of people and they could hopefully sell lots of widgets. Kurkse nodded at Willieface knowingly as people began to arrive. Meanwhile, Matts friends came in droves to the big feast but were shocked to see a big wooden fence blocking the way!  Matts friend's shouted over the fence, "We want our free food!  Let us in!" "No!" shouted Kurkse "You're stealing the food and it's costing me money!".  "Ya!" shouted Willieface.  Matt's friends shook their fists at Kurkse and Willieface, "The food is free and we don't want to get hounded by your buddies! This path is easier than going thru your front door!"  "It's my house and I'll do what I want!  I have to pay for the mess you made in my backyard!  Just go thru the front door like everyone else!"  There was much wailing and gnashing of teeth and it became hard to decern what was being said.  Eventually the crowd dispursed and some people went thru the front door of Kurkse's house.  Others grumbled and decided to use the special drive-thru window Kurkse had put in.  "At least we don't have to talk to his friends", they said.  Later they read a note that said there would be business cards handed out at the drive thru window soon.  The sighed as they drove off with their tasty food.  Still others went directly to the houses of the makers of their favorite dish.  "What a pain.  All this driving around sucks.", they said as they went around town gathering the tasty food.

A father consoled his son who was crying outside Mattrex's house.  "Why can't I get some tasty food?!", cried the boy.  "Well son, Kurkse and Willieface need to make money to pay for their houses and the path that Mattrex was using was making it expensive for them." explained the father.  "But I thought it was free?" the boy said.  "Not if it's coming from their houses.  Don't worry son, a solution will present itself.  It always does."  The father patted his son on the back as they walked away.

as for 'pay curse for their lost revenue' why should we... we never forced them to make this site did we? i don't believe we did. Besides, the only way we are going to get the same as we did with WM is if we pay for it, and i don't see why we should pay for an improved cc when they'd still be getting out ad revenue! at the end of the day, if Curse had bloody pulled their finger out IN THE FIRST PLACE and provided a good service for bothPC and mac users, WM would have never been created, thus...this situation wouldn't have occurred. It's because of the fact that Curse didn't care enough to make a good client in the first place that this situation is present...

Had to lol at the epic analogy but here's a better one

Bill want to go to Kuskes (or whatever he was called) Nice house for food but he likes nice food so much he is now clinically obese and can walk that far and he lives the other end of town so he asks his other friend who lives next door to go to Kuskes house to get some of the food he likes so jimmy the neighbour thinks sure i will go for you. but to save him some trouble he tells a few others that he is going for Bill does any one else want me to go for them?

When jimmy takes the food to bill he says btw i got you some junk mail to ignore and bill says Cheers mate eats the food and wipes his arse on the junk mail after wards.

Also to restate the blindingly obvious the references to WM in essence stealing is total rubbish just because you keep making the same statement doesn't make it so!! you been taking lessons from my wife?

If sum one could please explain why the following points are incorrect i will happily shut up

1. How can WM use more bandwidth to update my addons from Curse than me going to Curse and doing it manually?

2. How can Curse Claim that Authors arnt mentioned in WM when they are?

3. Why does the Curse Client need to install things i have no idea what they do and i havent asked for?

4. Why does Curse Client need me to register?

5. Why do Curse try and make me feel privileged for getting CC when they could charge me for it but they let me have it for free?

6. Maybe because when WM have been destroyed then they will make you pay for CC?

All WM does is what i ask it to do it would be the same as getting my granny to update my addons for me while i am at work its not stealing anything all it is doing is filtering bull plop im not interested in and as previously pointed out it it is a wow community well as a member of that community i dont care whether or not Curse make a profit this year as there is always some one willing and able to be competitive and offer an alternative service.

If Curse was a UK company in theory they would be operating illegally for forming a cartel and protectionism unfortunatley i dont know what the US laws are like however going by normal US trading policy its stick together and screw every one else attitude and when we dont get our way we sulk and push our weight around two good examples of this are the Banana trade and US steel.

I know the last part is a bit random but its no more offtopic than other posts

For those who do not feel that deep linking is an issue, try the phrase "in-line" linking. It seems to be more accurate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_linking#Criticism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inline_linking

Deep-linking seems to have it's pros and cons, inline - not so much.

Hope this helps.

  Quote:

that is why i asked the question about bandwidth to which i havent seen a simple answer.

• Curse makes money on advertising.
• Normally, a user that downloads from a page (or from their client) sees an ad.
• Displaying an ad makes money for Curse.
• WowMatrix does not display advertiding.

Therefore, WM does not make money for Curse.

A long time ago in a game Blizzard made, Diablo II, Njuaguar made an addon (D2JSP) that allowed you to run D2 without human interface. It was a hack. It was free to begin with. After a while Njuaguar felt he shouold be paid for his "genious and hard work". Those that did not agree with him were banned from his site. A few of those people  went and joined Blizzhackers which had a much more open meetings of the minds. Njaguar would put traps in his script but Blizzhackers would take apart these enscriptions or booby traps faster than he could make new ones. Their versions worked better and much cleaner than D2JSP did. He gave up on the booby traps and finally talked a few coders to join him which evened out his "official" and blizzhackers versions. Warden ended these addons later but that is another story.

Because of the work these people did Blizzard changed their position that all addons are bad and totally bannable. Blizzard made a system of rules that is the addon system we use now. In WoW this a total win for both sides. Addons now enhance game play without unfairly hurting others.

I would hate to see the game suffer because of a few greedy people. I see coders saying they are more important than the game. I see sites saying the same thing. The inline linking theft is easily stopped, Captcha for the win. WoWMatrix will hopefully have to get addons from the authors (preferable) or we will have a beginning of a Dark Age in addons where the best ones are private held for guild use only. The more greed we see the more Blizzard will step in and stop addon abuse then we all lose.

The good news is the client did not set off all security this time, so they really have improved that aspect of the client. I have decided to allow the client on my primary machine.

Things I would like to see the CC team do:

• Lose the required login for addon updates.
• Don't require a premium client for automatic updates. All of the other premium stuff is fine to make premium.
• Better detection of addons (although I understand this may have been affected by my previous usage of WowMatrix, which is to be uninstalled soon).
• Work together with other sites (such as WoW Interface) for a more unified client.
• Not all addons that are available through the website (like AutoDing, not to be confused with AutoDinger) are available through the client.

Curse.com has stated that WowMatrix was the cause for their bandwidth lost. From another post they stated their bandwidth use is down by about 30%. Anyone can throw out numbers. But legally speaking these numbers mean nothing. Especially since at this time it is only days after patch day. What if that 30% is just the people who don't do anything other than check updates with WoWM and then go to playing the game. Life is unfair. Curse.com and WowI are unfair. WowMatrix though out of all of these at least had offered exactly what it offered. An easy way to update addons that Curse.com and WowI were not conscerned about. Which is why their software will never be as good as WoWM was for the job at hand. It is against their own self interest.

Explanation of why stating WowMatrix is stealing bandwidth is false.

- One is not required to log in to access and download addons. The bandwidth is offered for use to retrieve addons first. They do so for more than just one game system. The purpose though is to garner profit. It takes unique IP addresses for ad's to turn a profit. They do not pay for repeat cases often. If they forced people to log in it would deminish the occurence of new IP's being so easily added into the pool that they profit by.

What Curse.com and WowI have done is prevent a product that worked far better than their own from being used by any that used it. Immagine the impact on people who are intelectually incapable of finding out why they can not update all their addons if all they do is use WowMatrix cause it is easy, simple, and capable to be used by the most computer illiterate. You have imposed upon them from failing to update most of their addons. They argue that they are preventing WowMatrix TM is who they have blocked and who they are preventing. But that is false. They are preventing all users from gaining access by a means they don't want you to use.

If you cared about the users, you would not of done this basically on patch day. You would of given fair warning and posted news well in advance. You would of worked to of made certain users were able to in a timely manor get the updated addons on patch day. But instead, you didn't just fail to do that. You chose to intentionally do this.

Addon authors deserve a portion of admiration. They see something that many players could use and try to provide it. A site such as Curse.com makes finding addon choices easily. But if people can not update the addon because you have blocked them. Those complaints will fall to the authors.

Curse.com is more interested in profits than providing quality. Their addon updater CC failing to be able to identify addons that WowMatrix has no trouble doing. Even if the Addons were installed 6 months ago, it will find out what they are and if they have an update for them. Even addons they do not have a means to update.

Educating on why Firefox + adblock plus excells over other services of ad prevention.

A website requires the use of applets to be run by the user accessing the website to transmit data to the ad server. This is where the unique IP address comes into play. That applet then triggers loading of the ad to be displayed.

Adblock when you first visit a website will show the ad's. But then you can go through the use of filtering to prevent the required applets to load. This is not hiding of the ad so you do not see it. This really does remove the bandwidth required for ad's. If you filter just the url with a firewall but still allow the applet to run, it will take a bit of time before giving up. But by removing the applet from being able to load the website will finish loading in a shorter time.

Translation - Firefox + adblock pluss = faster loading websites, reduced spam/ads, and maintaining control over your web experience. All for Free.

My bandwidth use with WowMatrix would be less significant than if I have to go searching for each addon manually.

The moment Curse.com starts charging for services, the authors need to reallize they are just being used at that point. If Authors recieve a kick back or "donation" in order to keep them, they will then also become as guilty as Curse.com in any law suit should one be applied.

I have been playing wow for over 4 years and used CC for some time, not only did it not do what I wanted but it screwed up my computer so badly that I had to wipe my hard drive and reinstall everything including windows. I had finally found peace and comfort with wowmatrix and they NEVER put my files anywhere but the exact spot they were suppose to and now curse and wowinterface do this! I have this one thing to say to programmers and to Curse, I will not only NEVER come back to curse for anything ever again or to wow interface but I also will no longer use one single addon that is now blocked by wowmatrix. I hope all of you who loved wow matrix  so much will join me in this. There are still plenty of addons out there that will replace the ones I am using and I will be plenty happy with them. So good going curse and wowinterface for losing any and all business from me and hopefully others in the future.

  Quote:

Originally Posted by Arlethia

I have been playing wow for over 4 years and used CC for some time, not only did it not do what I wanted but it screwed up my computer so badly that I had to wipe my hard drive and reinstall everything including windows. I had finally found peace and comfort with wowmatrix and they NEVER put my files anywhere but the exact spot they were suppose to and now curse and wowinterface do this! I have this one thing to say to programmers and to Curse, I will not only NEVER come back to curse for anything ever again or to wow interface but I also will no longer use one single addon that is now blocked by wowmatrix. I hope all of you who loved wow matrix  so much will join me in this. There are still plenty of addons out there that will replace the ones I am using and I will be plenty happy with them. So good going curse and wowinterface for losing any and all business from me and hopefully others in the future.

I also just wanted to add for those programmers that are complaining that there is no link to the site or credit for doing the addon on wowmatrix, you are WRONG!

For those who care to know all users of wowmatrix have to do is right click the addon and ask to go to the source website and guess what you go right there and there is no issues at all!

Amazing isnt it that so many people are complaining about something they know NOTHING about!

I agree 100% if they are here to be our friends....why can't they be friends.

I have solved our problem only one person out of 60 in our guild will be installing addons.

They will be going and manually updating addons from Curse Wowace etc Then those addons will be uploaded to our Guild website Hey presto! even less traffic for curse i hope this helps curse with there bandwidth issues :)

Any other way i can help reduce your bandwidth usage let me know.

  Quote:

I hope all of you who loved wow matrix so much will join me in this.

Sorry to dissapoint, but I tried CC again, and it works well now, so I've uninstalled WoWMatrix.

I believe in second chances. I gave CC a second chance, and now it's what I'm gonna use.

  Quote:

Originally Posted by Plinth_BWR

For those who do not feel that deep linking is an issue, try the phrase "in-line" linking. It seems to be more accurate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_linking#Criticism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inline_linking

Deep-linking seems to have it's pros and cons, inline - not so much.

Hope this helps.

If WowMatrix was running a website that allowed you to download addons from it via downloading through curse.com as the provider these points would be valid. But, it does not. WowMatrix is a program that only checks a database and goes to check to see if the addon is up to date. If not, you can then choose to update. The user that chooses to use WowMatrix knows it is just a program to keep addons updated. The very thing Curse.com and WowI are there for. To make it possible to find the latest addons and to keep them updated.

If Curse.com and WowI had not acted in the manor that they chose. The userbase wouldn't be in as much of an uproar. They don't want to admit that users are upset and hurt. But, that is because they don't care about the userbase. They care about their red line and their wallet. They may have started out as people with passion for a game or games that they love. But now, I doubt they think of it beyond anything but a job away from their life.

Not a single representative of either Curse.com or WowI has even apollogized for the inconvenience this has had on the user's of addons that they host. The reason is simple though. They did it on purpose to have this impact. Or they wouldn't of done it in time with a massive patch.

I think at this point the best alternative would be for Blizzard to offer hosting and download services for addons for their games. It would probably cut a large chunk of revenue out of Curse.com's pocket while providing propper fan fare for addons.

"I think at this point the best alternative would be for Blizzard to offer hosting and download services for addons for their games. It would probably cut a large chunk of revenue out of Curse.com's pocket while providing propper fan fare for addons."

I think you hit the nail directly on the head.

Time for everyone to suggest it on the WoW forums and see what we can stir up.

  Quote:

Originally Posted by FSDraconis

f WowMatrix was running a website that allowed you to download addons from it via downloading through curse.com as the provider these points would be valid. But, it does not.

Ah. Now we're getting somewhere. The people who run Curse and WoWUI have clearly stated that this is the case. One could argue that Curse is running some poorly constructed scam, however one can not say the same for WoWUI. Yet these competitors in the market both assert the same thing. WoWMatrix, if wrongfully accused, says nothing.

Thngs that should make you go "Hmmmm".

Can you step outside your frustration in regards to the client useability issue and address this? If you have inside knowledge of the inner workings of WoWMatrix or have perhaps tested WoWMatrix in Curse or WoWUI's server rooms, I'd like to understand what the technical difference is.

As far as I can see, unless you are looking at the traffic coming through the Sites in questions routers, you cannot refute their claim beyond an unsupported "I don't believe it.", but I am far away from being a site admin. So help me out and educate me as to why WoWMatrix is not inline-linking. Note that I read your post carefuly when you described how it does what it does, but you give no indication as to how you know that it isn't inline linking and that's what I want to know.

Specifically, without seeing the code, how do you know?

Thank you very much. I'm very interested in this matter and there seems to be many people who are sure that they know what is happening between WM and the two sites. At this point, without knowing whom I'm discussing this with, I'll stick with the site admins who have complete access to the traffic and web statistics.

Respectfully yours.

Since your client software sucks, I'll use Firefox to download everything manually. I use adblock plus in Firefox, not to cheat you of revenue exactly, but because most of the virus and malware spreading vectors nowadays are through web ads. So, I won't see your ads anyway. I'm going to use *more* of your bandwidth pulling up your graphically obsesses pages to download addons than I would with wowmatrix and guess what, I still won't see any ads.

So you're causing me inconvenience, you're not getting any more ad views, and when wowmatrix figures out a way around your roadblock I'll be back to using that anyway. Congratulations on wasting time on this instead of figuring out how to make your client find the addons so you can serve ads in your own space.

Copypasted but totally true.

Saddest thing about all this is that it seems like curse doesn't care about it's users. I made a thread on this forum yesterday asking what are the plans on creating a unified and cross-platform plugin manager for Wow, I also cross-posted it to wowinterface. So far wowinterface has talked about its closed-alpha manager that technically has support for other sites but I have no idea if anyone has planned on writing a plugin for curse.

Will this mean yet another completely useless Not Invented Here syndrome that curse will not support an application that isn't coded by them and still try to push their (bu far?) inferior application? I sure hope not but the more time passes without any feedback the more it seems to be heading that way. Sad, really sad.

About bandwidth, an average addon page has around 250-300 kb of raw html + a ton of images and external JS and CSS files and who knows how much stuff streamed through Ajax. While most images and external files can be cached that 250k+ html and ajax content gets downloaded on every single page refresh. I'm quite sure that navigating through 3-4 pages to actually download the addon consumes significantly more bandwidth than downloading the actual addon itself. Wowmatrix was actually saving you a ton of bandwidth, you just didn't get any add revenue from them.

Oh, and I forgot to mention. While some people have reported that CC works through Wine under Linux it surely doesn't on a 64bit OS with 6g RAM. You can blame Linux/Wine all you want but end result is still the same: there is no working manager for Linux now that wowmatrix is banned.

Plinth_BWR - You need to start looking at the specific legal jargon referenced to " in-line linking ". When a website such as for instance youtube hosts a video they are the people providing the bandwidth behind it. They also allow in-line linking of their video's on other sites. The video, and the bandwidth continue to be provided by youtube but you see, access, and control said video from a forum post for instance.

When using WowMatrix, all it is doing is replacing your Web Browser and automating a great number of steps. Now I will give room to say that I personally do not see whether or not WowMatrix first recieves said file to their server prior to sending to the user or if they use some other means of hand off. The only way we "could" of found out was timing the process of the download stage. On my system with the addons it can still fetch. It is fast. The time isn't there to go to the site and pull it to them before then sending to the user each time. Since Curse.com is complaining about bandwidth it proves that WowMatrix isn't pulling addons to keep on their own servers for redistribution. Instead, it states that every time a person checks their addons, it cross checks with Curse.com.

Since files are being downloaded from a site that is offering them from the recipient computer the statement of " in-line  linking " can not be used. WowMatrix is the same as Curse.com's own CC. An aplication that checks on addons and updates if they need it. In place of a web browser they fetch, and then install.

Curse.com is offering a free of charge service to Authors. A place for their addons to be hosted, represented, displayed, and easily maintained by the author. But they can not offer a service to us (users) and continue to offer addons for Blizzard games. The addons have to be available free of charge or Blizzard will add the addon to Warden. I know the glider addon is a poor example but it is an example of an addon that has been added into Warden.

Because Curse.com requires you to register with them and use said access point with CC they can monitor what you do and when to a degree. Every time you check on updates they get data on what you use most. It is simmilar to how tv sensus works. For a service that does not require you to log in to download addons it should make you wonder why you need to do so. It isn't because they want to help you.

So, in recap. In-line linking isn't accurate at all. If used in a court of law the judge would be informed how the data process is handle and bearing all current visible content hand shakes that users of WowM can see. The point would simply be called invalid. WowMatrix uses bandwidth at best as an automated web browser that does not need to load graphical interface or content. Including advertising applets. Sure, it uses bandwidth. But reallistically speaking. It can't use more than going to their website. Every time you visit the website they have a whole ton of graphics that need to be loaded. That all comes prior to searching for the addon. Then downloading the addon. If their browser cleans out the cache after every visit and they have to come daily to check on every addon to see if an update is available. The bandwidth used exceeds WowMatrix in just your first use. WowMatrix deals in the world of txt and file downloads. Very small and fast bits of data.

The simplest statement many have said and no one admits to listening to. If Curse.com's CC worked as well, as easily, and as simple as WowMatrix. They would be using CC. Curse.com has gotten to big for itself to remember it is the users that make them their profits. I'm sorry Curse.com, the economy has failed for many reasons. So I immagine that the ad's are offering less per IP than before. But try to remember, we go to you because it is easy. More you make it difficult, the more likely someone else will offer to do it better.

  Quote:

Originally Posted by CobraA1

  Quote:

I hope all of you who loved wow matrix so much will join me in this.

Sorry to dissapoint, but I tried CC again, and it works well now, so I've uninstalled WoWMatrix.

I believe in second chances. I gave CC a second chance, and now it's what I'm gonna use.

Second chances!?!? what about Mac users? Oh yeah just forget about Mac users even though more Macs are being sold than ever before...

By you saying it works fine now that sounds pretty selfish to me to be honest, you aren't the only user in the world... Not everyone uses a PC so why should you assume CC works 'well' for everyone?!

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Second chances!?!? what about Mac users?

Since I have not stated what OS I am using - why do you make assumptions?

Okay, I use Windows - but last I checked, CC has a Mac version.

. . . and last I checked, I was downloading the software for my own personal use, not for the entire world.

  Quote:

By you saying it works fine now that sounds pretty selfish to me to be honest, you aren't the only user in the world...

The purpose of obtaining the software is to fulfill a personal desire to easily maintain the addons I use.

I didn't download the software for everybody else.

So yes, I think it makes sense to be a bit "selfish" in this case.

I'm not claiming it works well for everyone. It does, however, work well for my purposes, and that's all I want.

  Quote:

Originally Posted by DWSR

Stop whining and write your own updaters. The Curse Client works just as good as WoWM, and there is currently a new updater in the works that will be extensible and compatible with all sites, according to the Bliz forums.

 

WoWM is and always will be a huge pile of pig dung.

The WoWMatrix, for whatever their many and real issues with respecting Curse's bandwidth and mod author permissions, is simply the only updater up there that works on Linux and Macs. Curse's Mac client beta sucks. It won't even start up on my macs, and on my friends, it hard crashes the system requiring a full reboot. 

I've worked on open source projects and know what's involved, because of that, I have contributed money to authors in the past.

For Curse to decide to do this over  major patch without a working client for two platforms shows a huge disregard for the mod users. Protecting the authors is a noble and necessary function, and Curse should be applauded for doing that. But they should be excoriated for not waiting until they were prepared to not screw over their users.

  Quote:

Originally Posted by SynMonger

No they don't. The text ads shown on the site are for guides that show you how to farm your own gold. Get it right.

You mean the guide containing outdated data or the one containing stuff from wowwiki and other website publicly available?  

It is ironic that Curse.com and their supporters whine about the advertisement links in WowMatrix. They are all legal ad's, and all specifically for World of Warcraft that is called brand loyalty. Instead of all these other MMO ad's from places begging for a larger player base that Curse.com chooses to spam its visitors with. WowMatrix has been loyal to their users in having done what they said they would do. Make it easy to update your addons.

  Quote:

Originally Posted by FSDraconis

It is ironic that Curse.com and their supporters whine about the advertisement links in WowMatrix. They are all legal ad's, ...

FSDraconis, it is just ironic how short sighted you are. Those ads, legal or illegal, provide income to WowMatrix developers, while draining the resources and the money (yes, did you hear about that web hosting actually costs money?) of Curse. Because you download the addons from these sites, even if you use WM.

  Quote:

Originally Posted by FSDraconis

... Make it easy to update your addons.

I update my addons manually. Yes, download them from the Curse and WowInterface sites myself. Takes approx. 10 minutes or less a day. Simple, easy, works cross-platform, lol. Follow my example, and you will not while about WM being blocked.

It makes me laugh that people assume just because there is a mac version it's equally as good... Have you tried the CC on your own mac? i doubt you even have a mac or you wouldn't be making the statements you are, i've got both and can tell you right now that it's nowhere near equal, if Curse would bloody provide people with an EQUAL service just like WM people wouldn't be pissed off. If i'm honest i feel sorry for linux users although the mac CC is damn diabolical.

As for CobraA1...Dont comment on what you don't have experience with:
'Okay, I use Windows - but last I checked, CC has a Mac version' - have you tried it yourself? no clearly not. 

Curse & co conspiritors have chosen to do this at patch time as they know all user that actually play to reasonable lvl are forced to update addons.

As a GL I will not take a guild member that doesnt have the most uptodate raid required addon simple. Now not all of our guild members are particularaly computer literate and WM was also a required guild addon. This way you could always ensure all your members are using the same release version of which ever addon. Curse knew that they would have a massive amount of traffic at this time and there motive was for you to remove WM and install there client knowing that you would have no real choice to spend 3 hours searching for every addon that you have and manually updating it.

If it takes some one 10 mins to update all there addons manually well done maybe you could do mine for me? I have 148 addons from different sites and i can see that taking me some time.

Curse's attitude is "yea there gonna moan and bitch but they will get over it" by which time you have installed there crappy obtrusive dodgey version and you stick with it becuase you cant be bothered to go through the pain of trying to find something else.

And i dont think they need to have any one register in order to track usage as they grant access to there own client so they know when it is used and how it is used they certainly dont need my email address for this! BTW do companies still pay for email addresses? as i am sure that 5 million email address that are genuine and related directly to a particular group of poepl would be worth a penny or two!

Oh sorry i just realised they cant give email addresses out becuase of privacy policy! the fact i get gold seller email in my junk mail are purely coincidental.

So as others have stated:

Curse are trying to create a monopoly for there own benefit. By working with wow Interface to block WM it is called a cartel again which is illegal

WM does no harm to Curse. IT itself doesnt lose them income It is the user who loses them income you or i are accessing there database and using a browser of sorts to do this so by blocking WM its actually forcing the user to access there site in a way CURSE want to.

Curse has no loyalty to it's users or the author's it has no interest in keeping either happy its sole purpose is to generate revenue and as i have not seen an official admin (I have seen plenty of undercover officials with propaganda) make any kind of statement can imo only mean one thing! They plan on keeping a low profile and hoping that us muppets will stop grumbling eventually and rant about something else so they can get back to counting money.

PS to those that said hosting a webiste costs money as i personally host 2 websites i am aware of this and it costs me about £500 a year in total for hosting and maintenance which i am sure they earn far more than that for there adds. now before some smart ass points out i have not even 1 hundredth of there traffic i am quite aware of this and bandwidth is directly related to cost so as WM more than likely uses less bandwidth then it should keep Curses costs down for those that only want to update addons.

Which as a user thats what i want im not interested in any other information that curse provide as all other information that is provided for a user has been cut and pasted from other websites anyway so in the end curse only makes money as a parasite and is now all mardy becuase others do the same!

But better!

  Quote:

As for CobraA1...Dont comment on what you don't have experience with:
'Okay, I use Windows - but last I checked, CC has a Mac version' - have you tried it yourself? no clearly not.

I do not recall making statements about the user experience on the Mac. I merely noted it was available.

If you are having issues with CC for the Mac, I recommend discussing it on the relevant forums. Complaining about it in a thread about WM is unlikely to fix it.