Quote:

Originally Posted by Yellowcrown

After all this the bottom line for me is no different than when WM was blocked.

I want a reliable, unintrusive, free, clean method of managing my addons.  WoWMatrix was (and still is for the most part) just that.

And if WM continues the course they appear to have set after being blocked, specifically: hosting addons themselves, with permission of the authors when the addons' license requires it, I'd say they're well on their way to doing it in a way that doesn't abuse anyone else.  The major challenge I see them having is that they've thumbed their noses at a lot of addon authors, who now don't trust WoWMatrix and are unlikely to permit them to host their addons for quite some time.  I have no problem with WoWMatrix's client provides it uses resources it hasn't be forbidden to use, and distributes addons according to the requirements of their licenses and the authors' wishes.

  Quote:

If and when CC and WI can provide a similar solution (without collecting any data from me) AND if WM no longer does the intended job I will probably but reluctantly switch.  Until that time, however, WM and manual downloads (from the developers site when possible) will be my addon manager of choice.

Which is a perfectly reasonable approach.

  Quote:

In the end it's the user community that has suffered by this.  Whether curse has a business case or not most users that endure needless pain from a company have long memories.  You might recall the Sony rootkit, I do.

I recall the Sony rootkit as well, though I don't believe it's comparable in this case.  Sony did something that was borderline illegal by putting software on CDs that put a rootkit on computers.  They did this without the knowledge or permission of those who purchased the CDs.  Curse, however, simply took steps to prevent an addon manager that had been asked not to use their resources from cintinuing to do so.  They installed no software on anyone's computer in a shady way, or without the user's permission. 

You're welcome to your opinion of Curse and WoWI.  I think it is inaccurate, at best, to claim that either site acted out of malice.

then why is it that i could get all my asddons up to date at one time and with the other 2 ( mine you 2) it takes me longer and they still dont have all the addonns i use. wowmatrix may have done something they shouldnt have but they were good at having all the addons in one place ane fast at the addon updates at one time with one program

  Quote:

Originally Posted by Er_Medic

then why is it that i could get all my asddons up to date at one time and with the other 2 ( mine you 2) it takes me longer and they still dont have all the addonns i use. wowmatrix may have done something they shouldnt have but they were good at having all the addons in one place ane fast at the addon updates at one time with one program

I've never argued that what the WoWMatrix client did wasn't slick, incredibly convenient, and (with the exception of being abusive in their use of other people's resources) well implemented.  That doesn't, however, excuse their abuse of other sites in the process.

I'm personally glad to hear that rather than spend effort trying to get around Curse's and WoWInterface's blocks, they've focused on establishing their own hosting services and getting addons hosted there.  If they continue to work on developing their own resources for providing addons to their users, and begin to show serious respect for the wishes and needs of addon authors in addition to the desires of addon users, I expect they'll become a valued and respect member of the addon community.

  Quote:

Originally Posted by Hirsute

So again, I'll return to my initial point (which I had strayed from by the end of my initial post), the choice presented to Curse, as they've stated it (and I choose to trust their statements) is essentially:

WikipediaWictionaryChambers (UK)Google imagesGoogle defineThe Free DictionaryJoin exampleWordNetGoogleUrban DictionaryAnswers.comrhymezone.comMerriam-Webster<>0

wvcidfjoguarm

1)Continue to allow people to use WM to update addons from Curse, and eventually fail and have Curse go away entirely because the cost incured through the use of WM to update addons was not offset by its use.  This would result in neither WM user nor anyone else being able to update addons that had been hosted by Curse.

If anyone doesn't know yet then wowmatrix is looking for addon authors who would like to host their stuff for free on their servers so what curse got was a direct competitor now. We'll see how things work out eventually.

  Quote:

Originally Posted by hohoukn

What about the option that curse develops it's manager to be at least as good as wowmatrix so people themselves would choose it over wowmatrix not because they can't get some addons from it but simply because it would be better?

If anyone doesn't know yet then wowmatrix is looking for addon authors who would like to host their stuff for free on their servers so what curse got was a direct competitor now. We'll see how things work out eventually.

Curse is actively developing their client, and is continually making improvements.  It's come a long, long way in the last few releases.  I have never had any issues with it that I wouldn't expect from Beta software (and far fewer of those, really) in about a year of using it, so I can't really relate to those who claim to have had bad experiences with it.  I'm not saying they haven't, I'm just saying I haven't.

The point is, I believe Curse intends to keep improving the Curse client, and would probably welcome constructive feedback regarding how users think it could be improved.

  Quote:

Originally Posted by Hirsute

  Quote:

Originally Posted by hohoukn

What about the option that curse develops it's manager to be at least as good as wowmatrix so people themselves would choose it over wowmatrix not because they can't get some addons from it but simply because it would be better?

If anyone doesn't know yet then wowmatrix is looking for addon authors who would like to host their stuff for free on their servers so what curse got was a direct competitor now. We'll see how things work out eventually.

Curse is actively developing their client, and is continually making improvements.  It's come a long, long way in the last few releases.

How long has curse client been in development vs wowmatrix?

I just did a comparison between questhelper downloaded from curse and one downloaded with wowmatrix. Both directories were binary identical, only difference was WowMatrix.dat file in the directory that wowmatrix downloaded and installed. Does anyone have any real proof of modified addons that are newer than a few months or even years that I could check?

  Quote:

Originally Posted by emjay

dont you guys understand that the authors of most addons just dont want to support your shitty site thus they dont upload them to it? enjoy your outdated addons + library conflicts due to shitty updater from a shitter coder of a shitty website.

Really. Why are so many using wowace then? :|

@doncorneo

Regarding the client and multi-site download abilities: Without agreements and cost sharing between sites, there's no way to make a multi-site updater that isn't abusive to someone, so I don't blame them.  If that's what you're hung up on, you're showing exactly the attitude that has resulted in a lot of authors mistrusting and disliking WoWMatrix.

Beyond that... I'm not really interested in responding to you.  Flimflan has made some constructive, well put, and intelligent posts that have taken into account the conversation as it developed.  Your post seems to ignore the last couple of pages of conversation here, and is inflammatory by nature, so continue to believe what you want, but I'm not interested in combing through your post to respond (again) to the points you try to make.

  Quote:

Originally Posted by doncorneo

You say posts exist about Authors requesting WM remove their AddOns and you don't want to list them all, well then provide a link to the post(s)/thread(s), that way you can back up what you are saying with actual proof and not just hearsay.

http://forums.wowace.com/showthread.php?t=16062

  Quote:

www.wowmatrix.com
Contact form at www.wowmatrix.com/contact.html
(Beware -- they may try to circumvent your takedown request by removing the addon from the viewable database on their website, but not removing it from their actual database accessible through the client! They also don't respond directly, so you'll have to keep checking to determine when/if they comply.)

  Quote:

Originally Posted by Spookie

  Quote:

Originally Posted by doncorneo

You say posts exist about Authors requesting WM remove their AddOns and you don't want to list them all, well then provide a link to the post(s)/thread(s), that way you can back up what you are saying with actual proof and not just hearsay.

http://forums.wowace.com/showthread.php?t=16062

  Quote:

www.wowmatrix.com
Contact form at www.wowmatrix.com/contact.html
(Beware -- they may try to circumvent your takedown request by removing the addon from the viewable database on their website, but not removing it from their actual database accessible through the client! They also don't respond directly, so you'll have to keep checking to determine when/if they comply.)

Here's a post back from 2007 with requests from authors for their addons to be removed.  Shows how long this has been an issue.

http://forums.wowace.com/showthread.php?t=8947

Curse locks up my PC when I use it.  It is slow and outdated.  If you want to block WowM then you better start doing some darn good programming that fixes your bugs because Curse, the way it is right now, SUCKS compared to WowM.  Maybe you should hire some of the programmers from WowM to work for you and then your site might be worth having.  I have a gamers dream PC and Curse locks it up!  That is almost funny!  Wow better get a clue that I like Matrix and so do MANY others out there.  It is by far the better product.  If WOW and Curse stop Matrix then I stop playing WOW and they lose money ... Many of us will do exactly that!

Want to lose revenue ... shut down a great site and make a site that sucks your partner ... yes, that makes perfect sense.  Get a clue ... make your software better or open Matrix back up.  We love MATRIX ... we think Curse SUCKS ... WOW who should you be partnered with ???

  Quote:

Originally Posted by doncorneo

We won't know for sure unless both sides tell us exactly what transpired.

But by christ you'll draw some closed minded conclusions anyway.

  Quote:

Originally Posted by Lesium

... WOW who should you be partnered with ???

Option C, the authors?

The omgcursesucksihateyoualldieomgwowmx thread will be closing quite soon.

  Quote:

Originally Posted by Yellowcrown

In the end it's the user community that has suffered by this.  Whether curse has a business case or not most users that endure needless pain from a company have long memories.  You might recall the Sony rootkit, I do.

  Quote:

Originally Posted by Hirsute

I recall the Sony rootkit as well, though I don't believe it's comparable in this case.  Sony did something that was borderline illegal by putting software on CDs that put a rootkit on computers.  They did this without the knowledge or permission of those who purchased the CDs.  Curse, however, simply took steps to prevent an addon manager that had been asked not to use their resources from cintinuing to do so.  They installed no software on anyone's computer in a shady way, or without the user's permission.

You're welcome to your opinion of Curse and WoWI.  I think it is inaccurate, at best, to claim that either site acted out of malice.

I am not comparing the actions of Sony to those of Curse and WoWI.  I am trying to illustrate the feelings the user community may have towards a company that treats it so poorly.

Ah... so this is the reason WoWMatrix isn't updating my addons anymore. What a bunch of <edit> you are Curse. I have always disliked your site layout and on top of that I never, EVER pay attention to the ads on your site. WoWI's site is just as bad as your own, don't think I am just gonna pick on you. Neither one of you designed your sites for functionality, but instead went for graphically impressive. Then you come and have the nerve to complain about your bandwidth costs? Honestly.

You two sites roll in and think you can decide what we players have to use to update our addons easily? First, how about making your site less fancy and going for functionality. Second, how about making an updater that correctly detects addons. Third, how about making an updater that doesn't corrupt players addon folders. I would guess that these issues never entered your minds when you decided that WoWMatrix was the bad guy, right? You couldn't, with *all* that money you make from your ads, buy WoWMatrix's software? Oh, that's right. You don't actually care about the community, you care about trying to make money off of your poorly designed site. Then you start advertising to us that you are making some kind of Premium Package. Who do you think is honestly going to pay for this? I don't know a single person who would pay a site to download addons that were made to be distributed freely to the community.

Addons were made by the community to enhance the WoW experience and you come in and wreck the most user friendly addon updater out there. Bravo. I'm sure your business is just going to boom after this decision.

For everyone who is going to reply to this that Curse and WoWI need to cover their bandwidth costs, don't think I do not already know this. I understand how it works. I am, however, calling bullcrap on WoWMatrix taking up more bandwidth than Curse's own downloader does. This isn't about bandwidth, and it never has been. This is about an independent developer creating a better program than Curse is capable of creating. Maybe Curse will turn this around and create a great downloader, but at the rate that CC is going... well, I don't see it happening in the forseeable future. Blizz is more likely to integrate addon features into the game faster than Curse will be able to create a working downloader.

On that note, I am done with this post. I really hope you do something about this situation Curse, because atm you guys are public enemy #1 in many WoW players eyes. As you should be right now.

Well tbh im very happy with the curse client atm, tried it a year ago and it pretty much failed, but gave it the benefit of the doubt this time.

Ive not used wow matrix before but if they were using add on's without the authors permission that aint a good thing.

Responsible management would have made sure a reliable downloading client was available for all systems before blocking one of the only clients that work for some. I can tell you that the "beta" version of the curse downloader for Mac is absolutely atrocious ranking right at the level of completely unusable. I will go to the individual websites for updates before I ever install that garbage on my computer again. I can understand the reasoning behind the move, but Curse spit in the face of many of it's users by not having their "ducks in a row" before cutting ties with one of the only reliable downloaders without offering a viable alternative. Good Job.   

  Quote:

Originally Posted by Gryphon22

Addons were made by the community to enhance the WoW experience and you come in and wreck the most user friendly addon updater out there.

Bad for you good for the creators of addons getting their copyright ripped out of their files.

http://www.wowinterface.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22697 :)

that removeal crap is enough to make me want to go change all my addon licenses to NON GPL so they cant even host newer version I make.