You continue to refer to this "better" service... Did WoWMatrix work better? Probably, I don't know or care as I've not used it nor will I ever.. Is it an actual better "service"... That is the point you're trying to make.. and the plain and simple answer is NO.

They underhandedly went scanning sites that offer mods to see what they offer, and then offer you the opportunity of "oh, you click this, I'll go here and download it for you".. What it does (if anything) in the background while it does that (see above paragraph). There is a difference.

Wowmatrix - bypasses all ads on the hosting site so they get no money from them and uses their bandwidth to give you their addon hosted on their site. Host's cost increase.

Browser - loads website seeing the ads.. website gets some coin.. user browses to the addon they want and downloads.

Browser (Ad-blocked) - loads website seeing "X" on the ads (blocked).. website gets some tiny coin.. user browses to the addon they want and downloads. (coin comes from the ad being initialized even thought it is blocked)

CurseClient (free) - loads ads.. website gets some coin.. user manually updates one by one.. user cries that beta-premium-preview has concluded.

CurseClient (paid) - no ads.. website gets some coin from subscription.. user hits magical 'update all'.. client happy that he got his money's worth.

From the above simplified examples, you can see that your "better" service ideology comes at a cost to the host. If they continued allowing that, then why bother with a website.

  Quote:

Originally Posted by Wowza1

They underhandedly went scanning sites that offer mods to see what they offer, and then offer you the opportunity of "oh, you click this, I'll go here and download it for you".. What it does (if anything) in the background while it does that (see above paragraph). There is a difference.

You mean like Google? I don't recall Google asking the internet if they could search it, maybe I've just forgotten.

We're all sitting here on machines that have been built on the foundation of making the exchange of information processes easier. Thinking someone is lazy for wanting to click one button over five buttons is like thinking someone is lazy for using a hard drive over a punch card. Any such "lazy" flame about the use of a computer to simplify a process is fundamentally flawed. It's also quite apalling that such hypocrisy needed to be pointed out.

Edit: Only 90 more posts to go before I'm entitled to an opinion.

  Quote:

Originally Posted by ArkInRev

  Quote:

Originally Posted by Wowza1

They underhandedly went scanning sites that offer mods to see what they offer, and then offer you the opportunity of "oh, you click this, I'll go here and download it for you".. What it does (if anything) in the background while it does that (see above paragraph). There is a difference.

You mean like Google? I don't recall Google asking the internet if they could search it, maybe I've just forgotten.

We're all sitting here on machines that have been built on the foundation of making the exchange of information processes easier. Thinking someone is lazy for wanting to click one button over five buttons is like thinking someone is lazy for using a hard drive over a punch card. Any such "lazy" flame about the use of a computer to simplify a process is fundamentally flawed. It's also quite apalling that such hypocrisy needed to be pointed out.

 

Edit: Only 90 more posts to go before I'm entitled to an opinion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robots.txt

  Quote:

Originally Posted by paratus

  Quote:

Originally Posted by Winternever

From now on I will never use this curse account. I prefer to manual update my add ons that paying for a free service.

I don't understand this line of thinking at all.  Remember, you don't HAVE to pay for Premium.  Even the free client still makes things a lot easier than going manually.  I mean, holy crap, is it that hard to click each addon in a simple list, that has an update available, and click the update button?  Is it really that big of a deal?  You people are all overreacting on rediculous levels.

You also have not lost anything you had before.  When you installed the client, if you actually took the time to read things before just clicking OK, it told you just what you'd lose when Premium went live.  You didn't lose something you had before, you just had access to something as a temporary gift.

I think it's more about the principle of the issue, more than anything else.

I now no longer have a choice, and to me that smells of a monopoly.

All it does is put files into my game folder for me, why would i pay for an update feature?

The only reason i use curse was for the update feature, but if your gana charge for it you can count me out. lewl.

Alrighty... Let me explain something, from one person with a low post count to another.

When an organization makes a change (like Curse just did) and somone who has never participated in the community before shows up complaining, folks who HAVE been participating in the community take a dim view of it.  Why?

Because the impression given is that the new poster just logged on to kvetch.  The impression given is that the new poster doesn't actually care about the community, the product, or what have you - they just want to vent their spleen.

Now, is that attitude right?  Is it fair?  Probably not, but it's still the impression some folks get.  It isn't even entierly out of line, although specifically commenting about someone's low post count is probably in bad taste because it's a completely invalid argument.  Low post counts prove nothing, they just provide suspicions.

Now, to all you folks crying "MONOPOLY!!!"... Please, look up the word.  Better yet - just follow THIS LINK.

Last I checked, WoWInterface was still going strong, and working on an updated version of their own Addon Manager... and still providing their old one, as far as that's concerned.  (Oh - and that link to WowInterface's manage?  I found it on Curse.com.  I didn't even know WowInterface HAD an addon manager until I read about it here...).  WowUI is still up and running, too.  Even if there weren't other places to get addons out there (and there are), those two sites alone mean you have a choice.  The fact that WowInterface has their own Addon Manager means you even have a choice about which of those particular clients you want to use.  You can even use WowMatrix (which I flat out refuse to link to) if that makes you happy...

It's not like Curse just decided to start shutting people down using predatory buisness practices.  They worked together with WowInterface to end the predatory practices WowMatrix was using - not the other way around.  I'm not going to sit here and bad-mouth WowMatrix (although I could)... but I'm also not content to sit around and listen to people whine about not having a choice what that's just not the case.

Oh, and just one more thing:  IMHO, calling someone a "lazy arse" is name calling.  Calling someone just "lazy" is probably name calling too, but calling somone an "arse" can't possibly be described as something other than an intentional insult... at least, not from where I'm sitting.

The initiation of the first time responses was instigated entirely by the removal of what most believe to be basic functionality from the client. This led directly to those users feeling cheated, misled, and second hand. We have "Caution HOT!" written on coffee cups: Is it any wonder that people did not see this coming? Curse put on an ugly face because information was not effectively distributed to the clients. A simple warning "This feature will be a benefit of paid subscribers when Curse premium is launched" thatfired off every time update all was pressed, and the information would have been in their face.

Instead, people feel swindled. The definition of what is and is not premium was not clearly defined.

I am completely against removing update all from the manager. Never would I have suspected that as a premium feature. Even if it was said a million times, the message never reached me. Was it said on Curse.com? maybe. But when people use an updater, and not curse.com, how is it that they would have seen it?You

You drive on roads every day, but does skipping town hall meetings that involve the department of transportation make you any less of a part of a community?

The merit by which people feel insulted is rooted in the same ignorance that leads the 100 posters condescend the under 10 posters.

Curse did not effectively reveal the disparity of their premium service to the free. As a result the ignorance of the free users led to the general feeling that premium services were an affront to their quiet support. These otherwise content individuals respond passionately, and are consequently dismissed by curse and other community members. The message being sent is "We never wanted you here in the first place."

Taking a dim view of these posts is neither right, nor wrong, but it does bolster the claim that the under 10 posters are making in the first place.

Everyone on this forum is using software and hardware that is designed to remove the manual interaction from information exchanges. It is hypocritical to use this medium to make any reference to being lazy. Anyone who thinks that clicking 20 buttons is even remotely less lazy than clicking 1 button needs to review the definition of lazy. Clicking buttons is inherently lazy. Maybe if we were typing on Dance Dance Revolution floor pads there would be an argument made that one click is lazy. The reality is, no one is training for a marathon while responding to a forum post. No one is doing lunges while they install their addons. Even those who are not participating are likely to sedentary.  

There is no monopoly, an there is nothing illegal being done. Assaulting curse on those grounds is futile. Arguing that the current state of the updater was handled in poor taste is certainly something that should be entertained.

While I have not yet given up hope: I am certainly not holding my breath that this mistake will be remedied. I can't in good conscience use a product that is offered by a company, or community, that has such a low opinion of even a fraction of its supporters.

And, as the arguments roll in about how trivial this feature is, I'll offer the same agument back. If it is indeed such a trivial component, how could it be worth such negative community feedback? Offering up arguments about the trivial nature of the component only server to bolster the argument that it is not substantial enough to be considered premium. It is trivial. Toggle the variable and spend the rest of the afternoon organizing an ad campaign for donations or the premium service.

  Quote:

Originally Posted by ArkInRev

The initiation of the first time responses was instigated entirely by the removal of what most believe to be basic functionality from the client. This led directly to those users feeling cheated, misled, and second hand. We have "Caution HOT!" written on coffee cups: Is it any wonder that people did not see this coming? Curse put on an ugly face because information was not effectively distributed to the clients. A simple warning "This feature will be a benefit of paid subscribers when Curse premium is launched" thatfired off every time update all was pressed, and the information would have been in their face.

Instead, people feel swindled. The definition of what is and is not premium was not clearly defined.

I am completely against removing update all from the manager. Never would I have suspected that as a premium feature. Even if it was said a million times, the message never reached me. Was it said on Curse.com? maybe. But when people use an updater, and not curse.com, how is it that they would have seen it?You

You drive on roads every day, but does skipping town hall meetings that involve the department of transportation make you any less of a part of a community?

The merit by which people feel insulted is rooted in the same ignorance that leads the 100 posters condescend the under 10 posters.

Curse did not effectively reveal the disparity of their premium service to the free. As a result the ignorance of the free users led to the general feeling that premium services were an affront to their quiet support. These otherwise content individuals respond passionately, and are consequently dismissed by curse and other community members. The message being sent is "We never wanted you here in the first place."

Taking a dim view of these posts is neither right, nor wrong, but it does bolster the claim that the under 10 posters are making in the first place.

Everyone on this forum is using software and hardware that is designed to remove the manual interaction from information exchanges. It is hypocritical to use this medium to make any reference to being lazy. Anyone who thinks that clicking 20 buttons is even remotely less lazy than clicking 1 button needs to review the definition of lazy. Clicking buttons is inherently lazy. Maybe if we were typing on Dance Dance Revolution floor pads there would be an argument made that one click is lazy. The reality is, no one is training for a marathon while responding to a forum post. No one is doing lunges while they install their addons. Even those who are not participating are likely to sedentary.  

There is no monopoly, an there is nothing illegal being done. Assaulting curse on those grounds is futile. Arguing that the current state of the updater was handled in poor taste is certainly something that should be entertained.

While I have not yet given up hope: I am certainly not holding my breath that this mistake will be remedied. I can't in good conscience use a product that is offered by a company, or community, that has such a low opinion of even a fraction of its supporters.

And, as the arguments roll in about how trivial this feature is, I'll offer the same agument back. If it is indeed such a trivial component, how could it be worth such negative community feedback? Offering up arguments about the trivial nature of the component only server to bolster the argument that it is not substantial enough to be considered premium. It is trivial. Toggle the variable and spend the rest of the afternoon organizing an ad campaign for donations or the premium service.

bravo!  Wonderful post.

This new "Premium Service" junk is ridiculous. Let's see what this wonderful service does for us!

Updates my addons with one click!

Funny, that's why I downloaded the program months ago-- convenience. Now it won't do that without me paying for it? Why? I never used the "auto-update" option because of how screwy Curse Client handled some of the addons. I won't miss that. But if fifteen addons are out of date, now we have to update them one at a time? It's not like that's going to change the amount of Curse's bandwidth we're using. It just changes my opinion of the product greatly for the worse.

It makes my downloads faster!

Actually, I could care less if the download is slow, as long as it's faster than manually checking every addon for updates, downloading them, and reinstallling each one individually. Most addons are what, a handful of KBytes? Even at half the speed it's only a second or two. Freshly loading the average webpage would be more bandwidth-costly than downloading some of these addons. In and of itself, this "feature" would not convince me to pay.

It helps make Curse Ad-free!

Great, but it also makes Curse Client annoying as hell. I'd much rather have seizure-inducing swf/gif ads of all kinds on the site than deal with the inconvenience of having to upgrade every addon individually, see a "PAY FOR PREMIUM!" ad taking up my screen space (Curse Client is now adware), and be buffeted by notifications that if I want to do anything the client used to do with no problems, I need to pay for your "Premium Service". I browsed the site more often than I just installed addons from the list in the client. Some of them sound good on paper but if you went to the site, you'd see they weren't what you were hoping for.

Supports Curse!

Aside from making the older Curse Client, what unique thing have you guys done that merits me paying you? I can get most if not all of the good addons from the game's forums, as well as talk directly with the authors. Improve security? I've already seen addons that were blatantly stolen (for example, some idiot tried to rip off InventoryViewer). The quality of both the site and Curse Client was questionable before. Many addons have been listed for months but have no files to download-- why would Curse list those? I've repeatedly had to prevent Curse Client from mucking about with some of my addons because it destroys all of the manual configuration I've done (adPanel, for example). But instead of working on that, they decided to pick the most useful features of the client and lock you out of them. I guess that's their expert strategy for a superior product.

Support Addon Authors!

More like Curse's pockets. If I wanted to support the hard-working authors of great addons, I'd contact them and donate to them directly. If I'm moved enough to donate, I'd want to make sure the author gets more than "a portion", and I sure as hell don't want to support people who make half-assed, pointless, wheel-reinventing, and/or just plain silly addons. Reward quality, not existence.

In a nutshell, let's see what this service equates to!

Everyone who doesn't start paying for premium...

...now has slower downloads.

...now has to click on an addon, click update, click on the next, click update, click on the next addon.......

...gets ads planted into Curse Client.

...(probably unknowingly) supports the development of the runesdb website (even though other, less buggy databases for Runes of Magic have been around for a long time).

...gets to enjoy ignore the new, ad-free Curse website!

...gets BUY PREMIUM to CLICK HERE try LEARN MORE to BUY PREMIUM use CLICK HERE the LEARN MORE current BUY PREMIUM installment CLICK HERE of Curse Client BUY PREMIUM CLICK HERE LEARN MORE!

In conclusion, this is ridiculous. I understand Curse's need to make ends meet, but adware? Removal of simple convenience tasks? I have lost my faith in you.

@ArkInRev, I'm not going to argue that communication couldn't have been better.  I think it's obvious based on the feedback that something could have been done to better communicate with the users.  

I'm taking that in and will work to make sure future communications are better, however there is little to be done for the past one.

One thing I've seen a lot of people here doing is ridiculing us for taking actions to protect the future of the services we offer.  However, they offer little in the way of suggestions on better ideas.  We're listening out for any constructive ideas.

Why are you people whining about that 'Update All' feature made premium only? I suppose you didn't play during time there was no updaters and you had to download everything manually by going to 10-20 different websites. You still can nowadays WITHOUT PAYING use curse to update... Just couple more clicks required if it's problem go with old way but then you'll just find out yourself coming back to curse as manually downloading addons isn't easier

In my honest opinion making users to pay for that one button (and ads etc. removed) isn't worth paying money but why would I cry as I still can easily use client in which I wanted to use it

And what comes to slower downloads... You probably won't even notice difference between download speeds unless you have very fast connection. So don't cry and look at truth.. You will only make things harder for yourself if you remove curse

I don't mind that Curse decided to start a premium service. But making the "Update All" Button a premium feature was probably not such a good idea, because the difference between this and clicking the regular Update button for each marked addon on the list individually is really trivial, and that way you're communicating to your potential customers, that the product they are asked to pay for is also trivial in nature. Really, it's like "you're getting a free cab ride, if you open the car door yourself, but if the driver has to get it out to open it for you, you have to pay full fare." Guess what most people would pick.

This whole discussion is very amusing.  I know many are arguing the "principle" thing, but at some point you have to look at the economics.  For the price of a cup of coffee at Starbucks or a couple of packages of Gummy Bears a month, you get to sit back and let your addons be updated automatically.  For those arguing the "monopoly" thing... not even close... you can still get the AddOns and there are still other services.  This is just folks wanting stuff for free and ticked off because they can't have it... maybe if Curse threw in a pack of Gummy Bears the children here would stop whinning...

  Quote:

Originally Posted by NeoTiger

I don't mind that Curse decided to start a premium service. But making the "Update All" Button a premium feature was probably not such a good idea, because the difference between this and clicking the regular Update button for each marked addon on the list individually is really trivial, and that way you're communicating to your potential customers, that the product they are asked to pay for is also trivial in nature. Really, it's like "you're getting a free cab ride, if you open the car door yourself, but if the driver has to get it out to open it for you, you have to pay full fare." Guess what most people would pick.

Considering that money for me is tight right now, I won't pay for the "premium service". I've uninstalled the client, and uninstalled my add-ons that are only hosted on Curse, WoWAce or WoW Interface.

I'll miss Titan Panel (I've used it for 10 months now), but I WILL adjust!!! Sure, I can get the plu-ins for Titan Panel elsewhere, but I can only update the main add-on (the panel itself) through Curse.

I've gone back to WoWMatrix... the original updater I used when I started playing. I am really disappointed with Curse, and now wish I had never installed the client.

Curse Client has become just that for me... a curse.

  Quote:

Originally Posted by misterbaldy

I'll miss Titan Panel (I've used it for 10 months now), but I WILL adjust!!! Sure, I can get the plu-ins for Titan Panel elsewhere, but I can only update the main add-on (the panel itself) through Curse.

Huh?   Then what is this?

  Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikla

This whole discussion is very amusing.  I know many are arguing the "principle" thing, but at some point you have to look at the economics.  For the price of a cup of coffee at Starbucks or a couple of packages of Gummy Bears a month, you get to sit back and let your addons be updated automatically.  For those arguing the "monopoly" thing... not even close... you can still get the AddOns and there are still other services.  This is just folks wanting stuff for free and ticked off because they can't have it... maybe if Curse threw in a pack of Gummy Bears the children here would stop whinning...

You are now forced to use Curse client if you want to update major add-ons (such as Titan Panel, and it's alternate FuBar)... these are hosted now exclusively on Curse.

Your choice of where to get it has been taken away from you now. You had the choice before... when Curse DID NOT have a "premium service", but now your stuck with it. Also, you can no longer view certain content unless you are a "premium member", where I was able to view it before. They are charging you for something now, that you were getting free before.

So what's there to not understand. You want to spend the money, do so... that is your choice. My choice is to not pay for something now, that before you gave me just for signing up on the website... and received for free because I did so, but now I have to pay for those things.

Apparently you missed the whole post... WoW Interface is blocking other clients (such as WoWMatrix) as well. There are more than a dozen add-on clients I have found for WoW, and all suffer the same. If it's on WoWInterface, or Curse... sorry, you lose.

Also, the new Curse client showed up as malicious adware/spyware on my virus scanner everytime my computer loaded... something that never happened before.

It's gone now... and my virus scanner is quiet.

  Quote:

Originally Posted by misterbaldy

  Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikla

This whole discussion is very amusing.  I know many are arguing the "principle" thing, but at some point you have to look at the economics.  For the price of a cup of coffee at Starbucks or a couple of packages of Gummy Bears a month, you get to sit back and let your addons be updated automatically.  For those arguing the "monopoly" thing... not even close... you can still get the AddOns and there are still other services.  This is just folks wanting stuff for free and ticked off because they can't have it... maybe if Curse threw in a pack of Gummy Bears the children here would stop whinning...

You ar missing the point...

You are now forced to use Curse client if you want to update major add-ons (such as Titan Panel, and it's alternate FuBar)... these are hosted now exclusively on Curse.

Your choice of where to get it has been taken away from you now. You had the choice before... when Curse DID NOT have a "premium service", but now your stuck with it. Also, you can no longer view certain content unless you are a "premium member", where I was able to view it before. They are charging you for something now, that you were getting free before.

So what's there to not understand. You want to spend the money, do so... that is your choice. My choice is to not pay for something now, that before you gave me just for signing up on the website... and received for free because I did so, but now I have to pay for those things.

It's not Curse's problem that they're hosted exclusively on Curse, and you're not forced to use Curse either, if this bothers you, you could contact the authors of the addons you're concerned about to get them to host it on another addon site.

There was never a updater pre-premium, and you've not lost anything, you can still download addons from the site as you've always been able to.

  Quote:

Originally Posted by misterbaldy

Apparently you missed the whole post... WoW Interface is blocking other clients (such as WoWMatrix) as well. There are more than a dozen add-on clients I have found for WoW, and all suffer the same. If it's on WoWInterface, or Curse... sorry, you lose.

Noone is blocking other clients, i don't know if it's still in the pipeline for Curse, but i atleast know that WoWInterface is still very much working on API support for third-party clients, but it will be under their terms, so WoWMatrix won't be allowed to leech their server resources for their own profit.

Both of these API's are going to be restricted to premium-members, as this is the only sure way to guarantee that developers won't just disable, for example, ads.

  Quote:

Originally Posted by misterbaldy

 

Also, the new Curse client showed up as malicious adware/spyware on my virus scanner everytime my computer loaded... something that never happened before.

It's gone now... and my virus scanner is quiet.

How odd, it detects something as malicious adware/spyware, but it doesn't do so when you remove what it detects as malicious adware/spyware, wow, and when you delete files from your harddrive they're deleted as well right?

Amazing.

The best price is 2.45$ / month <- That's not really for get the server and the traffic bill payed!

I have an dedicated server, too! The normal price for traffic is not that high. It's only a question of the
Hoster...

It's a joke or isn't it? You are trying to make some profit! And that's not allowed! Lower your prices
or your site will get closed by Blizzard! I think 1$ / month would be enough! Not even an Onlinebankig-Software
will cost as much as your addon-auto-update-function! That's the only function I need and the rest of your
premium features are a total needless! And I think many people have the same view!

Your prices are simply usury and nothing else!

You can't make people addicted to some features only to remove them later to reactivate it for money!
Only a Drug Dealer would do that! This kind of Business will end up in getting people angry!

  Quote:

Originally Posted by misterbaldy

You ar missing the point...

You are now forced to use Curse client if you want to update major add-ons (such as Titan Panel, and it's alternate FuBar)... these are hosted now exclusively on Curse.

Wow.. Guess my manual clicking on "titan panel" and "manual download" that all STILL WORK doesn't work anymore..?? You are not forced to use anything or do anything you don't want to.. You ALWAYS have the choice of manually... On a side note, TitanPanel's main hosting site is WowInterface.. or get this, www.titanpanel.org (they host their OWN site).. It is not exclusive to curse.

Everything on Curse is available free..

  Quote:

Originally Posted by CrazyDruid

The best price is 2.45$ / month <- That's not really for get the server and the traffic bill payed!

I have an dedicated server, too! The normal price for traffic is not that high. It's only a question of the
Hoster...

It's a joke or isn't it? You are trying to make some profit! And that's not allowed! Lower your prices
or your site will get closed by Blizzard! I think 1$ / month would be enough! Not even an Onlinebankig-Software
will cost as much as your addon-auto-update-function! That's the only function I need and the rest of your
premium features are a total needless! And I think many people have the same view!

Your prices are simply usury and nothing else!

You can't make people addicted to some features only to remove them later to reactivate it for money!
Only a Drug Dealer would do that! This kind of Business will end up in getting people angry!

You might have a dedicated server but you clearly don't have a site the size of Curse.  Do you think Curse runs off one dedicated server? I imagine it's closer to a dozen.  I'm sure their server fees alone are well over $10,000 per month.  Not to mention they have probably a dozen or more employees who have salaries that need paid.

Also, why not make profit? They are a company! That's their goal!  They are providing you a service.  You don't have to use it but it's still a damn fine service and if you stop using it on principle like this (which makes little sense IMO) it's nobody's loss but your own.  Saying that the only feature you need was made premium while all the other premium stuff means nothing to you.. that only tells me that they made the right choice in making it a premium feature.  Ads pay like crap now adays and CANNOT support a company like Curse.

I'd love for Curse to post their monthly expenses just to shut everyone up.  Sorry guys, but this is reality and businesses need signifcant income or they won't exist.  If you think Curse is in the wrong for making your life so difficult as to having to click TWO buttons now, for free, then imagine how much harder it will be for you if this site doesn't exist at all because they didn't try to create income.

  Quote:

Originally Posted by misterbaldy

Your choice of where to get it has been taken away from you now. You had the choice before... when Curse DID NOT have a "premium service", but now your stuck with it. Also, you can no longer view certain content unless you are a "premium member", where I was able to view it before. They are charging you for something now, that you were getting free before.

Umm... what?!  I mean that's just simply not even the case.  If this is why you're upset.. I'm at a loss.  There is no content which you cannot view for free.  A premium subscription does not give you access to any extra content, it only allows you to get it more conveniently.

  Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaelten

@ArkInRev, I'm not going to argue that communication couldn't have been better.  I think it's obvious based on the feedback that something could have been done to better communicate with the users.  

I'm taking that in and will work to make sure future communications are better, however there is little to be done for the past one.

 

One thing I've seen a lot of people here doing is ridiculing us for taking actions to protect the future of the services we offer.  However, they offer little in the way of suggestions on better ideas.  We're listening out for any constructive ideas.

@Kaelten

Working on the distribution of information is a part of the solution.

I also don't believe that the remedy to this is complicated.

Step 1.Many users feel insulted and swindled. Some may need an apology for what they may rightfully consider poor communication. Personally, I don't need an apology. It just makes good sense to apologize. Lacking compassion for any fraction of the free user base could (or should) send a negative message to existing free users.

Step 2. Restore "Update All" as an unthrotled downloader for the conveneince of the free users, and continue to offer premium services. I don't see any other portion of the premium service being seriously attacked in the posts around here. In doing so, boldly thank the community for years of support. Free users feeling appreciated will hopefully respond amicably.

Step 3. Improve the distribution of information through the web site and the client as part of a campaign for donations from the community. Obviously I can only reference myself with any authority, but knowing that a free product that I love is in jeopardy of being unable to be supported financially through ads, I would be compelled to donate a larger sum than a minimum premium donation. When users feel obligated to pay for what they consider basic functionality, they will find a free alternative. Some, however, will respond in kind.

Step 4. Continue to enhance the Premium experience. Add value to the premium product and offer incentives for people to purchase silver, gold, or platinum versions. (or whatever identification it is given.)

Step 5. Donations on a per author basis with a fraction of the donation going to curse. When I tip a waiter, I don't like seeing any portion going to the captain or the chef. Each of the service staff whould be tipped on their own merit. It is, however, understandable for a small fee to be paid to the establishment in general. (A tip may be a bad example as this savings for the establishment is reflected in the lower wage of the waitstaff. Still, the establishment is compensated by the wait staff in their agreement to work for a reduced wage.)

Step 6. Reach out to the community with your improved communication and look for alternative sources of revenue.

I'm sure that there are other valid suggestions out there. No one reasonably expects there to be no source of income to the business.

  Quote:

Originally Posted by paratus

You might have a dedicated server but you clearly don't have a site the size of Curse.  Do you think Curse runs off one dedicated server? I imagine it's closer to a dozen.  I'm sure their server fees alone are well over $10,000 per month.  Not to mention they have probably a dozen or more employees who have salaries that need paid.

Also, why not make profit? They are a company! That's their goal!  They are providing you a service.  You don't have to use it but it's still a damn fine service and if you stop using it on principle like this (which makes little sense IMO) it's nobody's loss but your own.  Saying that the only feature you need was made premium while all the other premium stuff means nothing to you.. that only tells me that they made the right choice in making it a premium feature.  Ads pay like crap now adays and CANNOT support a company like Curse.

I'd love for Curse to post their monthly expenses just to shut everyone up.  Sorry guys, but this is reality and businesses need signifcant income or they won't exist.  If you think Curse is in the wrong for making your life so difficult as to having to click TWO buttons now, for free, then imagine how much harder it will be for you if this site doesn't exist at all because they didn't try to create income.

I know that the size of this site is much bigger than only one server could manage. But there is one thing you forget. The more people visit this site the more customers pay for using the curse client. And that's the point. If curse would lower the price, more people would pay. Everybody would think "OK 1$ per month! - Thats very fair!". And thats exactly what I'm talking about. Most people would pay for this service. But there must be an balance between the price and the service! And nearly 5$ are too much for only one useful feature. And many people simply don't have the money to pay 6 month at a time only to get a better price!

They should try fair play! Blizzard don't like people trying to get money from WoW! Take a look at Carbonite for example!

  Quote:

Originally Posted by CrazyDruid

The best price is 2.45$ / month <- That's not really for get the server and the traffic bill payed!

I have an dedicated server, too! The normal price for traffic is not that high. It's only a question of the
Hoster...

It's a joke or isn't it? You are trying to make some profit! And that's not allowed! Lower your prices
or your site will get closed by Blizzard! I think 1$ / month would be enough! Not even an Onlinebankig-Software
will cost as much as your addon-auto-update-function! That's the only function I need and the rest of your
premium features are a total needless! And I think many people have the same view!

Your prices are simply usury and nothing else!

You can't make people addicted to some features only to remove them later to reactivate it for money!
Only a Drug Dealer would do that! This kind of Business will end up in getting people angry!

Of course we're trying to make a profit.  We're a business.  

If you have your own dedicated servers ask your hoster how much they'll charge you for 4 1gige links.  Then reconsider $2.45/month.

  Quote:

Originally Posted by CrazyDruid

  Quote:

Originally Posted by paratus

You might have a dedicated server but you clearly don't have a site the size of Curse.  Do you think Curse runs off one dedicated server? I imagine it's closer to a dozen.  I'm sure their server fees alone are well over $10,000 per month.  Not to mention they have probably a dozen or more employees who have salaries that need paid.

Also, why not make profit? They are a company! That's their goal!  They are providing you a service.  You don't have to use it but it's still a damn fine service and if you stop using it on principle like this (which makes little sense IMO) it's nobody's loss but your own.  Saying that the only feature you need was made premium while all the other premium stuff means nothing to you.. that only tells me that they made the right choice in making it a premium feature.  Ads pay like crap now adays and CANNOT support a company like Curse.

I'd love for Curse to post their monthly expenses just to shut everyone up.  Sorry guys, but this is reality and businesses need signifcant income or they won't exist.  If you think Curse is in the wrong for making your life so difficult as to having to click TWO buttons now, for free, then imagine how much harder it will be for you if this site doesn't exist at all because they didn't try to create income.

I know that the size of this site is much bigger than only one server could manage. But there is one thing you forget. The more people visit this site the more customers pay for using the curse client. And that's the point. If curse would lower the price, more people would pay. Everybody would think "OK 1$ per month! - Thats very fair!". And thats exactly what I'm talking about. Most people would pay for this service. But there must be an balance between the price and the service! And nearly 5$ are too much for only one useful feature. And many people simply don't have the money to pay 6 month at a time only to get a better price!

They should try fair play! Blizzard don't like people trying to get money from WoW! Take a look at Carbonite for example!

I'm pretty certain that the amount of people who won't pay out of principle, and the amount of people who can't afford $2,5->5 a month is about the same regardless of the what the price is.

Also as already said countless times, Curse is not an addon, it's a website network.

  Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaelten

  Quote:

Originally Posted by CrazyDruid

The best price is 2.45$ / month <- That's not really for get the server and the traffic bill payed!

I have an dedicated server, too! The normal price for traffic is not that high. It's only a question of the
Hoster...

It's a joke or isn't it? You are trying to make some profit! And that's not allowed! Lower your prices
or your site will get closed by Blizzard! I think 1$ / month would be enough! Not even an Onlinebankig-Software
will cost as much as your addon-auto-update-function! That's the only function I need and the rest of your
premium features are a total needless! And I think many people have the same view!

Your prices are simply usury and nothing else!

You can't make people addicted to some features only to remove them later to reactivate it for money!
Only a Drug Dealer would do that! This kind of Business will end up in getting people angry!

 

Of course we're trying to make a profit.  We're a business.  

If you have your own dedicated servers ask your hoster how much they'll charge you for 4 1gige links.  Then reconsider $2.45/month.

Bandwidth and dedicated hosting with 24/7 support is expensive. I can accept this; I work in IT. However, what I can't accept is having your client shout at me to upgrade to premium every time I click a button. I understand what premium is; I don't want it, and I don't want to pay for it. Stop reminding me.

In the long run, this is going to hurt your ad revenue more than AdBlock or having a free "premium" client ever would have. By forcing your users to trudge through a crippled program just to see "Upgrade to PREMIUM! CLICK HERE FOR MORE INFORMATION" every time they do something, you're alienating a huge portion of your user base, and they're going to find other avenues to get their addons.

As it stands, the Curse client is a resource hog. The excecutable still isn't signed, so I have to "allow" the program via Vista's UAC every time it runs. There are other sites, and there are many ways to automate addon updates (even via Curse) without using your client. You may pick up a few premium subscriptions from people who are too lazy or lack the technical ability to script their own addon updates, but in the long run you may actually see the number of visitors to your site decrease.

Since you guys keep referencing ad revenue and bandwidth costs, how about this: A trimmed-down "basic" client with the "update all" functionality and interstitial ads that display while the addons are downloaded and installed. You may actually be able to get more revenue this way, depending on how your advertisers are paying you.

I would not mind seeing a big ad (even with sound, as long as I can mute it) display while all of my addons are downloaded and updated. As long as the client doesn't remind me to UPGRADE TO PREMIUM every time I click something. With a model like this, you can make a guarantee to your advertisers that users will most definitely be viewing their ads for an average of (however many seconds it takes to update ~10 addons via a cable connection). This may actually lead to advertisers paying you more money in order to have their ads display in this fashion, and then you can offer the premium service at a lower rate ($1.50/month is more appropriate) due to the increased revenue from advertisers.

So, to sum up, here are my issues:

- Paying $2.50/month for something that I can script myself.

- Having every single dialog and button in the "basic" client inform me that if I UPGRADE TO PREMIUM I will be SUPPORTING ADDON AUTHORS and get PREMIUM FEATURES. "Supporting addon authors" is a dubious claim at the least - can you give us the exact amount of money that the average addon author is going to see? Obviously authors of extremely popular addons like TitanBar for WoW and LibSlash for WAR are going to see more money, but what's the average Joe Coder going to see? "A portion" is not a valid answer in this case, as the only reason I've even considered purchasing Premium is to support the addon authors.

Anyway, I hope I didn't seem too inflammatory here because I understand that Curse is a business and businesses need money. Just keep in mind that your users are the ones generating that revenue for you; if you alienate them, your business is going to collapse.

  Quote:

Originally Posted by faulteroy

- Having every single dialog and button in the "basic" client inform me that if I UPGRADE TO PREMIUM I will be SUPPORTING ADDON AUTHORS and get PREMIUM FEATURES. "Supporting addon authors" is a dubious claim at the least - can you give us the exact amount of money that the average addon author is going to see? Obviously authors of extremely popular addons like TitanBar for WoW and LibSlash for WAR are going to see more money, but what's the average Joe Coder going to see? "A portion" is not a valid answer in this case, as the only reason I've even considered purchasing Premium is to support the addon authors.

20%

http://www.wowace.com/announcements/curse-premium-and-authors/

  Quote:

Originally Posted by FISKER_Q

20%

http://www.wowace.com/announcements/curse-premium-and-authors/

This link should probably be on the "Premium" page that's up on thet toolbar.

In general, it seems like the biggest issue involved here is the price of the premium service, followed by the lack of up-front communication. Here is what I think would be a good resolution for this problem.

1. Apologise to the membership for not providing some kind of warning prior to disabling the premium preview that the installer offered.
2. Reduce the rates of premium. By half at least. Your bandwidth costs are nowhere near that high, and the community will pay for premium if it is reasonable. In the process, reduce your share, but not that of the authors. They are your content, and they should be getting a good share of the reward.
3. Reinstate the Update All feature, but fix it so that you aren't upping your burst traffic on patch days. Make the 'Update All' button sequentially download each addon, and then process the addon while downloading the next. That will help your expenses quite a bit while making the overall experience much less annoying to the user. Leave the simultaneous threading of downloads for premium if you like - that is a worthwhile addition.
4. Get the client to automatically update addons for premium members without any input. Let a premium member forget that they have to do anything at all to work with the client. Greying out checkboxes for this feature in the basic client with a note about it being premium in the option dialog to enable the feature is a unintrusive way to show it is worth upgrading.

What really matters is that right now people are feeling penalized for not having premium, versus feeling that they are being given bonuses for upgrading. Pushing one button to update your addons should not be premium - but the use of additional burst bandwidth should. The community is, in general, smart. We know that it costs you to support the site, and we also know that you are a business, and need income to exist. We simply take umbrage at the concept of spending more than a month worth of WoW game time per year to support a addon site we might spend a hour on in that year.

@BelPolaris: Our bandwidth costs are that high, 10s of thousands of dollars a month high, also, point 4 is already in the premium version of the client.

Well...

Hosting a website with addon downloads isnt actually free of charge. Theres a large amout of diffrent costs to host such service. Power consumption, hardware maintenance, the internet connection and the time spent maintaining this service.

I have payed for this service, to support curse, as with curse I dont need to visit diffrent sites for each of the one million (more or less) addons I use. I just pop curseclient up, click the "update all" and im off. Only addon I need to keep an eye about is CT mod, which isnt found on curse (and that is a shame).

I want to make sure that curse will not close down, such as WoWace did due to increasing costs.

As one mentioned, the addon developers with addons here on curse didnt do it to get paid, but to give others access to his/her addon, that either enhances the UI or makes the game experience easier. But when curse starts handling out addons, more usefull addons may see the light, perhaps someone got this über addon that now will be shared with others.

I didnt bother to read all 8 pages of comments, but I like curse, and I dont mind supporting the cause.

  Quote:

Originally Posted by Blurr

Also i'd like to add, this is partially Curse's own fault.

Way back when, I had fully planned to use the Curse updater exclusively. Then it started giving everyone trojans/viruses/keyloggers. Don't think we forgot. That's why I started using WoWMatrix in the first place; because Curse had a bad client back then, too.

I even heard reports of people getting hacked that had undoubtedly happened because of the former Curse client.

I also hear reports that Curse's terms of use are none-to-friendly to authors in regard to copyright and ownership.

How can we be expected to want to pay for a service to a site that apparently has so many problems? Or one that people feel is using underhanded business practices?

The Curse Client never had any ads "until now" (It of course had them, but they weren't there because we were all running a Premium Preview), so there are no trojans or viruses through that avenue.

So there are no trojans/viruses/keyloggers, just FUD from desperate users trying to grasp at straws.

  Quote:

But if fifteen addons are out of date, now we have to update them one at a time?

Yeah - that's pretty annoying. Frankly, the "update all" button should not be a premium only feature.

The failure is entirely in what is considered premium.

"Update all" is not premium in any software that offers the ability to update something.

To color this another way:

Suppose the browser that you use suddenly blocked all images unless you told it to download them individually: one at a time. Premium members would only need to click once. Would you not feel intentionally inconvenienced?

Please put yourselves in the free user's shoes and then ask yourselves if such an annoyance is really something that should be premium.

It's not the price that is the problem, it's what is considered to be "premium."

One intentional inconvenience to every free user is a problem. In fact: disregard every alternative source of revenue. Please continue with Curse premium, but in a manner that makes sense.

It is annoying that I had to write a vbscript to mimic the update all function. I can't use the updater in good conscience knowing that the script is a workaround to something that is at least to some degree insulting to a portion of the fanbase.

Please either adjust the downloader, or solidify your backing of the current package so that we can let go of the last shred of hope that a decision will be made in the best interest of the community.

My apologies if I misunderstand the per-person costs here - but it seems like you would have more premium members if the cost is lower - giving you better overall return. As far as the auto-update feature goes, I just checked again, and I see no place on the client to indicate that the feature exists in the client currently. That should change. If I (the user) can't find a feature, it doesn't exist - even if the code is in the client.

  Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaelten

Of course we're trying to make a profit.  We're a business.  

If you have your own dedicated servers ask your hoster how much they'll charge you for 4 1gige links.  Then reconsider $2.45/month.

OK let me appreciate...

4x 1GBit Backbone: $3.000
10-20 employee: $20.000
Traffic and Server: $5.000
Total: $28.000

12.000.000 Players on World of Warcraft
10-15% approx. using the curse client (1.200.000-1.800.000)

$2.45 / month x 1.200.000 players = $2.940.000 (Min)
$4.95 / month x 1.800.000 players = $8.910.000 (Max)

If you would lower the price to $1 nearly all client-users would pay the price!

That means: $1 / month = $1.200.000 to $1.800.000 income (I think it's enough!)

I bought premium specifically for the 1 button update.. add free experience... and to support the developwers... you whiners have enjoyed a free lunch from the developer community for far to long.. donating is good.. and getting an awesome service for a nominal fee is even better... I was upset when i no longer paid for carbonite, it was a fantastic service and they worked hard... 

  Quote:

you whiners have enjoyed a free lunch from the developer community for far to long..

I can always go back to WM if you want. From what I've heard, we can consider ourselve lucky Blizzard even allows addons at all. Frankly, one of the things they didn't want was addons becoming an economic market. Why do you think they made those new addon rules anyways? Think about it.

  Quote:

I was upset when i no longer paid for carbonite, it was a fantastic service and they worked hard...

. . . and they're still around. Check their website.