You continue to refer to this "better" service... Did WoWMatrix work better? Probably, I don't know or care as I've not used it nor will I ever.. Is it an actual better "service"... That is the point you're trying to make.. and the plain and simple answer is NO.

They underhandedly went scanning sites that offer mods to see what they offer, and then offer you the opportunity of "oh, you click this, I'll go here and download it for you".. What it does (if anything) in the background while it does that (see above paragraph). There is a difference.

Wowmatrix - bypasses all ads on the hosting site so they get no money from them and uses their bandwidth to give you their addon hosted on their site. Host's cost increase.

Browser - loads website seeing the ads.. website gets some coin.. user browses to the addon they want and downloads.

Browser (Ad-blocked) - loads website seeing "X" on the ads (blocked).. website gets some tiny coin.. user browses to the addon they want and downloads. (coin comes from the ad being initialized even thought it is blocked)

CurseClient (free) - loads ads.. website gets some coin.. user manually updates one by one.. user cries that beta-premium-preview has concluded.

CurseClient (paid) - no ads.. website gets some coin from subscription.. user hits magical 'update all'.. client happy that he got his money's worth.

From the above simplified examples, you can see that your "better" service ideology comes at a cost to the host. If they continued allowing that, then why bother with a website.

  Quote:

Originally Posted by Wowza1

They underhandedly went scanning sites that offer mods to see what they offer, and then offer you the opportunity of "oh, you click this, I'll go here and download it for you".. What it does (if anything) in the background while it does that (see above paragraph). There is a difference.

You mean like Google? I don't recall Google asking the internet if they could search it, maybe I've just forgotten.

We're all sitting here on machines that have been built on the foundation of making the exchange of information processes easier. Thinking someone is lazy for wanting to click one button over five buttons is like thinking someone is lazy for using a hard drive over a punch card. Any such "lazy" flame about the use of a computer to simplify a process is fundamentally flawed. It's also quite apalling that such hypocrisy needed to be pointed out.

Edit: Only 90 more posts to go before I'm entitled to an opinion.

  Quote:

Originally Posted by ArkInRev

  Quote:

Originally Posted by Wowza1

They underhandedly went scanning sites that offer mods to see what they offer, and then offer you the opportunity of "oh, you click this, I'll go here and download it for you".. What it does (if anything) in the background while it does that (see above paragraph). There is a difference.

You mean like Google? I don't recall Google asking the internet if they could search it, maybe I've just forgotten.

We're all sitting here on machines that have been built on the foundation of making the exchange of information processes easier. Thinking someone is lazy for wanting to click one button over five buttons is like thinking someone is lazy for using a hard drive over a punch card. Any such "lazy" flame about the use of a computer to simplify a process is fundamentally flawed. It's also quite apalling that such hypocrisy needed to be pointed out.

 

Edit: Only 90 more posts to go before I'm entitled to an opinion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robots.txt

  Quote:

Originally Posted by paratus

  Quote:

Originally Posted by Winternever

From now on I will never use this curse account. I prefer to manual update my add ons that paying for a free service.

I don't understand this line of thinking at all.  Remember, you don't HAVE to pay for Premium.  Even the free client still makes things a lot easier than going manually.  I mean, holy crap, is it that hard to click each addon in a simple list, that has an update available, and click the update button?  Is it really that big of a deal?  You people are all overreacting on rediculous levels.

You also have not lost anything you had before.  When you installed the client, if you actually took the time to read things before just clicking OK, it told you just what you'd lose when Premium went live.  You didn't lose something you had before, you just had access to something as a temporary gift.

I think it's more about the principle of the issue, more than anything else.

I now no longer have a choice, and to me that smells of a monopoly.

All it does is put files into my game folder for me, why would i pay for an update feature?

The only reason i use curse was for the update feature, but if your gana charge for it you can count me out. lewl.

Alrighty... Let me explain something, from one person with a low post count to another.

When an organization makes a change (like Curse just did) and somone who has never participated in the community before shows up complaining, folks who HAVE been participating in the community take a dim view of it.  Why?

Because the impression given is that the new poster just logged on to kvetch.  The impression given is that the new poster doesn't actually care about the community, the product, or what have you - they just want to vent their spleen.

Now, is that attitude right?  Is it fair?  Probably not, but it's still the impression some folks get.  It isn't even entierly out of line, although specifically commenting about someone's low post count is probably in bad taste because it's a completely invalid argument.  Low post counts prove nothing, they just provide suspicions.

Now, to all you folks crying "MONOPOLY!!!"... Please, look up the word.  Better yet - just follow THIS LINK.

Last I checked, WoWInterface was still going strong, and working on an updated version of their own Addon Manager... and still providing their old one, as far as that's concerned.  (Oh - and that link to WowInterface's manage?  I found it on Curse.com.  I didn't even know WowInterface HAD an addon manager until I read about it here...).  WowUI is still up and running, too.  Even if there weren't other places to get addons out there (and there are), those two sites alone mean you have a choice.  The fact that WowInterface has their own Addon Manager means you even have a choice about which of those particular clients you want to use.  You can even use WowMatrix (which I flat out refuse to link to) if that makes you happy...

It's not like Curse just decided to start shutting people down using predatory buisness practices.  They worked together with WowInterface to end the predatory practices WowMatrix was using - not the other way around.  I'm not going to sit here and bad-mouth WowMatrix (although I could)... but I'm also not content to sit around and listen to people whine about not having a choice what that's just not the case.

Oh, and just one more thing:  IMHO, calling someone a "lazy arse" is name calling.  Calling someone just "lazy" is probably name calling too, but calling somone an "arse" can't possibly be described as something other than an intentional insult... at least, not from where I'm sitting.

The initiation of the first time responses was instigated entirely by the removal of what most believe to be basic functionality from the client. This led directly to those users feeling cheated, misled, and second hand. We have "Caution HOT!" written on coffee cups: Is it any wonder that people did not see this coming? Curse put on an ugly face because information was not effectively distributed to the clients. A simple warning "This feature will be a benefit of paid subscribers when Curse premium is launched" thatfired off every time update all was pressed, and the information would have been in their face.

Instead, people feel swindled. The definition of what is and is not premium was not clearly defined.

I am completely against removing update all from the manager. Never would I have suspected that as a premium feature. Even if it was said a million times, the message never reached me. Was it said on Curse.com? maybe. But when people use an updater, and not curse.com, how is it that they would have seen it?You

You drive on roads every day, but does skipping town hall meetings that involve the department of transportation make you any less of a part of a community?

The merit by which people feel insulted is rooted in the same ignorance that leads the 100 posters condescend the under 10 posters.

Curse did not effectively reveal the disparity of their premium service to the free. As a result the ignorance of the free users led to the general feeling that premium services were an affront to their quiet support. These otherwise content individuals respond passionately, and are consequently dismissed by curse and other community members. The message being sent is "We never wanted you here in the first place."

Taking a dim view of these posts is neither right, nor wrong, but it does bolster the claim that the under 10 posters are making in the first place.

Everyone on this forum is using software and hardware that is designed to remove the manual interaction from information exchanges. It is hypocritical to use this medium to make any reference to being lazy. Anyone who thinks that clicking 20 buttons is even remotely less lazy than clicking 1 button needs to review the definition of lazy. Clicking buttons is inherently lazy. Maybe if we were typing on Dance Dance Revolution floor pads there would be an argument made that one click is lazy. The reality is, no one is training for a marathon while responding to a forum post. No one is doing lunges while they install their addons. Even those who are not participating are likely to sedentary.  

There is no monopoly, an there is nothing illegal being done. Assaulting curse on those grounds is futile. Arguing that the current state of the updater was handled in poor taste is certainly something that should be entertained.

While I have not yet given up hope: I am certainly not holding my breath that this mistake will be remedied. I can't in good conscience use a product that is offered by a company, or community, that has such a low opinion of even a fraction of its supporters.

And, as the arguments roll in about how trivial this feature is, I'll offer the same agument back. If it is indeed such a trivial component, how could it be worth such negative community feedback? Offering up arguments about the trivial nature of the component only server to bolster the argument that it is not substantial enough to be considered premium. It is trivial. Toggle the variable and spend the rest of the afternoon organizing an ad campaign for donations or the premium service.

  Quote:

Originally Posted by ArkInRev

The initiation of the first time responses was instigated entirely by the removal of what most believe to be basic functionality from the client. This led directly to those users feeling cheated, misled, and second hand. We have "Caution HOT!" written on coffee cups: Is it any wonder that people did not see this coming? Curse put on an ugly face because information was not effectively distributed to the clients. A simple warning "This feature will be a benefit of paid subscribers when Curse premium is launched" thatfired off every time update all was pressed, and the information would have been in their face.

Instead, people feel swindled. The definition of what is and is not premium was not clearly defined.

I am completely against removing update all from the manager. Never would I have suspected that as a premium feature. Even if it was said a million times, the message never reached me. Was it said on Curse.com? maybe. But when people use an updater, and not curse.com, how is it that they would have seen it?You

You drive on roads every day, but does skipping town hall meetings that involve the department of transportation make you any less of a part of a community?

The merit by which people feel insulted is rooted in the same ignorance that leads the 100 posters condescend the under 10 posters.

Curse did not effectively reveal the disparity of their premium service to the free. As a result the ignorance of the free users led to the general feeling that premium services were an affront to their quiet support. These otherwise content individuals respond passionately, and are consequently dismissed by curse and other community members. The message being sent is "We never wanted you here in the first place."

Taking a dim view of these posts is neither right, nor wrong, but it does bolster the claim that the under 10 posters are making in the first place.

Everyone on this forum is using software and hardware that is designed to remove the manual interaction from information exchanges. It is hypocritical to use this medium to make any reference to being lazy. Anyone who thinks that clicking 20 buttons is even remotely less lazy than clicking 1 button needs to review the definition of lazy. Clicking buttons is inherently lazy. Maybe if we were typing on Dance Dance Revolution floor pads there would be an argument made that one click is lazy. The reality is, no one is training for a marathon while responding to a forum post. No one is doing lunges while they install their addons. Even those who are not participating are likely to sedentary.  

There is no monopoly, an there is nothing illegal being done. Assaulting curse on those grounds is futile. Arguing that the current state of the updater was handled in poor taste is certainly something that should be entertained.

While I have not yet given up hope: I am certainly not holding my breath that this mistake will be remedied. I can't in good conscience use a product that is offered by a company, or community, that has such a low opinion of even a fraction of its supporters.

And, as the arguments roll in about how trivial this feature is, I'll offer the same agument back. If it is indeed such a trivial component, how could it be worth such negative community feedback? Offering up arguments about the trivial nature of the component only server to bolster the argument that it is not substantial enough to be considered premium. It is trivial. Toggle the variable and spend the rest of the afternoon organizing an ad campaign for donations or the premium service.

bravo!  Wonderful post.

This new "Premium Service" junk is ridiculous. Let's see what this wonderful service does for us!

Updates my addons with one click!

Funny, that's why I downloaded the program months ago-- convenience. Now it won't do that without me paying for it? Why? I never used the "auto-update" option because of how screwy Curse Client handled some of the addons. I won't miss that. But if fifteen addons are out of date, now we have to update them one at a time? It's not like that's going to change the amount of Curse's bandwidth we're using. It just changes my opinion of the product greatly for the worse.

It makes my downloads faster!

Actually, I could care less if the download is slow, as long as it's faster than manually checking every addon for updates, downloading them, and reinstallling each one individually. Most addons are what, a handful of KBytes? Even at half the speed it's only a second or two. Freshly loading the average webpage would be more bandwidth-costly than downloading some of these addons. In and of itself, this "feature" would not convince me to pay.

It helps make Curse Ad-free!

Great, but it also makes Curse Client annoying as hell. I'd much rather have seizure-inducing swf/gif ads of all kinds on the site than deal with the inconvenience of having to upgrade every addon individually, see a "PAY FOR PREMIUM!" ad taking up my screen space (Curse Client is now adware), and be buffeted by notifications that if I want to do anything the client used to do with no problems, I need to pay for your "Premium Service". I browsed the site more often than I just installed addons from the list in the client. Some of them sound good on paper but if you went to the site, you'd see they weren't what you were hoping for.

Supports Curse!

Aside from making the older Curse Client, what unique thing have you guys done that merits me paying you? I can get most if not all of the good addons from the game's forums, as well as talk directly with the authors. Improve security? I've already seen addons that were blatantly stolen (for example, some idiot tried to rip off InventoryViewer). The quality of both the site and Curse Client was questionable before. Many addons have been listed for months but have no files to download-- why would Curse list those? I've repeatedly had to prevent Curse Client from mucking about with some of my addons because it destroys all of the manual configuration I've done (adPanel, for example). But instead of working on that, they decided to pick the most useful features of the client and lock you out of them. I guess that's their expert strategy for a superior product.

Support Addon Authors!

More like Curse's pockets. If I wanted to support the hard-working authors of great addons, I'd contact them and donate to them directly. If I'm moved enough to donate, I'd want to make sure the author gets more than "a portion", and I sure as hell don't want to support people who make half-assed, pointless, wheel-reinventing, and/or just plain silly addons. Reward quality, not existence.

In a nutshell, let's see what this service equates to!

Everyone who doesn't start paying for premium...

...now has slower downloads.

...now has to click on an addon, click update, click on the next, click update, click on the next addon.......

...gets ads planted into Curse Client.

...(probably unknowingly) supports the development of the runesdb website (even though other, less buggy databases for Runes of Magic have been around for a long time).

...gets to enjoy ignore the new, ad-free Curse website!

...gets BUY PREMIUM to CLICK HERE try LEARN MORE to BUY PREMIUM use CLICK HERE the LEARN MORE current BUY PREMIUM installment CLICK HERE of Curse Client BUY PREMIUM CLICK HERE LEARN MORE!

In conclusion, this is ridiculous. I understand Curse's need to make ends meet, but adware? Removal of simple convenience tasks? I have lost my faith in you.

@ArkInRev, I'm not going to argue that communication couldn't have been better.  I think it's obvious based on the feedback that something could have been done to better communicate with the users.  

I'm taking that in and will work to make sure future communications are better, however there is little to be done for the past one.

One thing I've seen a lot of people here doing is ridiculing us for taking actions to protect the future of the services we offer.  However, they offer little in the way of suggestions on better ideas.  We're listening out for any constructive ideas.

Why are you people whining about that 'Update All' feature made premium only? I suppose you didn't play during time there was no updaters and you had to download everything manually by going to 10-20 different websites. You still can nowadays WITHOUT PAYING use curse to update... Just couple more clicks required if it's problem go with old way but then you'll just find out yourself coming back to curse as manually downloading addons isn't easier

In my honest opinion making users to pay for that one button (and ads etc. removed) isn't worth paying money but why would I cry as I still can easily use client in which I wanted to use it

And what comes to slower downloads... You probably won't even notice difference between download speeds unless you have very fast connection. So don't cry and look at truth.. You will only make things harder for yourself if you remove curse

I don't mind that Curse decided to start a premium service. But making the "Update All" Button a premium feature was probably not such a good idea, because the difference between this and clicking the regular Update button for each marked addon on the list individually is really trivial, and that way you're communicating to your potential customers, that the product they are asked to pay for is also trivial in nature. Really, it's like "you're getting a free cab ride, if you open the car door yourself, but if the driver has to get it out to open it for you, you have to pay full fare." Guess what most people would pick.

This whole discussion is very amusing.  I know many are arguing the "principle" thing, but at some point you have to look at the economics.  For the price of a cup of coffee at Starbucks or a couple of packages of Gummy Bears a month, you get to sit back and let your addons be updated automatically.  For those arguing the "monopoly" thing... not even close... you can still get the AddOns and there are still other services.  This is just folks wanting stuff for free and ticked off because they can't have it... maybe if Curse threw in a pack of Gummy Bears the children here would stop whinning...

  Quote:

Originally Posted by NeoTiger

I don't mind that Curse decided to start a premium service. But making the "Update All" Button a premium feature was probably not such a good idea, because the difference between this and clicking the regular Update button for each marked addon on the list individually is really trivial, and that way you're communicating to your potential customers, that the product they are asked to pay for is also trivial in nature. Really, it's like "you're getting a free cab ride, if you open the car door yourself, but if the driver has to get it out to open it for you, you have to pay full fare." Guess what most people would pick.

Considering that money for me is tight right now, I won't pay for the "premium service". I've uninstalled the client, and uninstalled my add-ons that are only hosted on Curse, WoWAce or WoW Interface.

I'll miss Titan Panel (I've used it for 10 months now), but I WILL adjust!!! Sure, I can get the plu-ins for Titan Panel elsewhere, but I can only update the main add-on (the panel itself) through Curse.

I've gone back to WoWMatrix... the original updater I used when I started playing. I am really disappointed with Curse, and now wish I had never installed the client.

Curse Client has become just that for me... a curse.

  Quote:

Originally Posted by misterbaldy

I'll miss Titan Panel (I've used it for 10 months now), but I WILL adjust!!! Sure, I can get the plu-ins for Titan Panel elsewhere, but I can only update the main add-on (the panel itself) through Curse.

Huh?   Then what is this?

  Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikla

This whole discussion is very amusing.  I know many are arguing the "principle" thing, but at some point you have to look at the economics.  For the price of a cup of coffee at Starbucks or a couple of packages of Gummy Bears a month, you get to sit back and let your addons be updated automatically.  For those arguing the "monopoly" thing... not even close... you can still get the AddOns and there are still other services.  This is just folks wanting stuff for free and ticked off because they can't have it... maybe if Curse threw in a pack of Gummy Bears the children here would stop whinning...

You are now forced to use Curse client if you want to update major add-ons (such as Titan Panel, and it's alternate FuBar)... these are hosted now exclusively on Curse.

Your choice of where to get it has been taken away from you now. You had the choice before... when Curse DID NOT have a "premium service", but now your stuck with it. Also, you can no longer view certain content unless you are a "premium member", where I was able to view it before. They are charging you for something now, that you were getting free before.

So what's there to not understand. You want to spend the money, do so... that is your choice. My choice is to not pay for something now, that before you gave me just for signing up on the website... and received for free because I did so, but now I have to pay for those things.

Apparently you missed the whole post... WoW Interface is blocking other clients (such as WoWMatrix) as well. There are more than a dozen add-on clients I have found for WoW, and all suffer the same. If it's on WoWInterface, or Curse... sorry, you lose.

Also, the new Curse client showed up as malicious adware/spyware on my virus scanner everytime my computer loaded... something that never happened before.

It's gone now... and my virus scanner is quiet.

  Quote:

Originally Posted by misterbaldy

  Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikla

This whole discussion is very amusing.  I know many are arguing the "principle" thing, but at some point you have to look at the economics.  For the price of a cup of coffee at Starbucks or a couple of packages of Gummy Bears a month, you get to sit back and let your addons be updated automatically.  For those arguing the "monopoly" thing... not even close... you can still get the AddOns and there are still other services.  This is just folks wanting stuff for free and ticked off because they can't have it... maybe if Curse threw in a pack of Gummy Bears the children here would stop whinning...

You ar missing the point...

You are now forced to use Curse client if you want to update major add-ons (such as Titan Panel, and it's alternate FuBar)... these are hosted now exclusively on Curse.

Your choice of where to get it has been taken away from you now. You had the choice before... when Curse DID NOT have a "premium service", but now your stuck with it. Also, you can no longer view certain content unless you are a "premium member", where I was able to view it before. They are charging you for something now, that you were getting free before.

So what's there to not understand. You want to spend the money, do so... that is your choice. My choice is to not pay for something now, that before you gave me just for signing up on the website... and received for free because I did so, but now I have to pay for those things.

It's not Curse's problem that they're hosted exclusively on Curse, and you're not forced to use Curse either, if this bothers you, you could contact the authors of the addons you're concerned about to get them to host it on another addon site.

There was never a updater pre-premium, and you've not lost anything, you can still download addons from the site as you've always been able to.

  Quote:

Originally Posted by misterbaldy

Apparently you missed the whole post... WoW Interface is blocking other clients (such as WoWMatrix) as well. There are more than a dozen add-on clients I have found for WoW, and all suffer the same. If it's on WoWInterface, or Curse... sorry, you lose.

Noone is blocking other clients, i don't know if it's still in the pipeline for Curse, but i atleast know that WoWInterface is still very much working on API support for third-party clients, but it will be under their terms, so WoWMatrix won't be allowed to leech their server resources for their own profit.

Both of these API's are going to be restricted to premium-members, as this is the only sure way to guarantee that developers won't just disable, for example, ads.

  Quote:

Originally Posted by misterbaldy

 

Also, the new Curse client showed up as malicious adware/spyware on my virus scanner everytime my computer loaded... something that never happened before.

It's gone now... and my virus scanner is quiet.

How odd, it detects something as malicious adware/spyware, but it doesn't do so when you remove what it detects as malicious adware/spyware, wow, and when you delete files from your harddrive they're deleted as well right?

Amazing.

The best price is 2.45$ / month <- That's not really for get the server and the traffic bill payed!

I have an dedicated server, too! The normal price for traffic is not that high. It's only a question of the
Hoster...

It's a joke or isn't it? You are trying to make some profit! And that's not allowed! Lower your prices
or your site will get closed by Blizzard! I think 1$ / month would be enough! Not even an Onlinebankig-Software
will cost as much as your addon-auto-update-function! That's the only function I need and the rest of your
premium features are a total needless! And I think many people have the same view!

Your prices are simply usury and nothing else!

You can't make people addicted to some features only to remove them later to reactivate it for money!
Only a Drug Dealer would do that! This kind of Business will end up in getting people angry!