Feedback and Enhancements

Re: Curse "Premium"

camealion — Thu, 07 May 2009 19:39:24 GMT

I'm locking this thread now before it degrades any further.

Re: Curse "Premium"

jive01 — Thu, 07 May 2009 19:27:05 GMT

Quote:

Originally Posted by CobraA1 CobraA1" src="/Themes/Common/v6/images/forums/btn-lastpost.gif"/>

It's really quite a simple concept: I support companies I think are headed in the right direction, and I do not support companies I do not think are headed in the right direction.

You know, that was some dizzying intellect. Did you come up with that yourself, genius? LOL. Thanks for spelling that all out for us. Remind me to tip you 100 gold next time we meet.

Re: Curse "Premium"

CobraA1 — Thu, 07 May 2009 14:45:24 GMT

Quote:

If it's not worth the $3/mo fee to you then don't pay it.

I'm sure the premium service is worth the cost, but I have decided to not buy it based on principle of "voting with ones wallet."

You see, the free version isn't worth the "cost." You get more for free from the competition. It's the old Netscape vs IE wars all over again.

So I think that Curse is setting a bad precedent with their products, so I have decided to hold back on buying it.

It's really quite a simple concept: I support companies I think are headed in the right direction, and I do not support companies I do not think are headed in the right direction.

Re: Curse "Premium"

FISKER_Q — Thu, 07 May 2009 06:50:59 GMT

Weirdoe the "Post" button is not there to encourage you type in som non-sensical bull and press it.

First of all, Microsoft isn't a monopoly, nor have they been sentenced for having a monopoly. (They've been sentenced for abusing a dominant market position) Second of all, Curse isn't a monopoly, and it doesn't have a dominant market position.

I'd try to explain how you counter your own arguments in the next part, but meh, i doubt you're smart enough to understand.

Re: Curse "Premium"

Weirdoe — Thu, 07 May 2009 05:50:23 GMT

Kaelten, there is a huge amount of brands of jeans out there.
Addons are placed on a few sites.
Microsoft is in a similar position as you are and they also clain they don't have a monopoly.
Well, at least they're close to and it should be acalled a de facto monopoly.
They had such control for many years that they could stear the office market like they wanted to.
After wowace was taken over you are in the same situation.
It's also a de facto monopoly and you made sure you had such control you could go ahead with the premium service.

Curse.com tried a new client a little more than one year ago.
I remember the reaction on Turalyon (eu) where I play.
It was alot of very angry players swearing alot about the client that was unusable.
The difference to the old one?
Update addons one by one and spam up an ad for every one of them.
Usable? Yes according to curse but no from the users.
Alot started using wowmatrix because of what curse.com did and that is the real reason curse.com got them killed.
Now it's the next try and curse.com will continue.

Since it's getting very obvios you will stand and die with the new crappy client I hope users leave and move to other places as far as possible.
Uninstall the client, yes I did and update addons manually now, and encourage addon creaters to move.
For the good of us gamers.

And don't for a second believe we will see a module to wowi's client.
Why dig your own grave by making us move to their client?

And yes, curse.com will continue to lie to us and never tell the truth about the real costs and other things.
Tbh I hope your site dies since you honestly deserve it.

Re: Curse "Premium"

Ackis — Wed, 06 May 2009 19:58:40 GMT

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaelten Kaelten" src="/Themes/Common/v6/images/forums/btn-lastpost.gif"/>

stop trolling ackis :P

I'm not! I'm busy writing addons for the entitled!

Re: Curse "Premium"

Kaelten — Wed, 06 May 2009 19:57:07 GMT

stop trolling ackis :P

Re: Curse "Premium"

Ackis — Wed, 06 May 2009 19:55:18 GMT

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaelten Kaelten" src="/Themes/Common/v6/images/forums/btn-lastpost.gif"/>

@nemof, we've been in contact with blizzard and have satisfied all of their concerns regarding premium. As far as the wowi minion, we're not ready to make any announcement or decision on that front.

When are you going to announce the new super premium service?

Re: Curse "Premium"

Kaelten — Wed, 06 May 2009 19:51:17 GMT

@nemof, we've been in contact with blizzard and have satisfied all of their concerns regarding premium. As far as the wowi minion, we're not ready to make any announcement or decision on that front.

Re: Curse "Premium"

nemof — Wed, 06 May 2009 18:16:58 GMT

@ Kaelten

It's an interesting point the troll raises. Reading the wow ui terms, it's pretty clear that it states charging for services relating to addons is against the rules - However, your point is also valid.

Have you spoken to Blizz, or are you just hoping that they will ignore you for a while. What happens though, when the nerf stick hits?

Also, out of interest, will curse be designing a module for either wowace or curse itself to use with the wow interface client?

Re: Curse "Premium"

Kaelten — Wed, 06 May 2009 14:09:45 GMT

Quote:

Yea, but the reason for this is the reason i stated above. Like 90% of all current WoW addons are based on either Ace/Ace2/Ace3 or LibRock libraries. Both brought into the live from the same person: ckknight, the person who first started ACE/Wowace. Due to the fact, that all addons based on this two libraries where originally hosted on wowace SVN server made wowace a virtual monopoly on wow addons. It was fine, while wowace was independed to have all your addons gathered in one place (while some of this addons where mirrored on other addon sites, most of them remained only available on wowace). They all were available either via the website (wowace.com/files) or via SVN (later also via WAU).

Dude, get your facts straight. I and Turan co-founded both Ace and WowAce, and after Turan left I've been in charge of both Ace and WowAce.

Quote:

Let us go a step further. Until you took over wowace, Curse's amount of addons was very bad too (like all other remaining addonsites too atm). By taking over wowace curse got a virtual monopoly on the addons (we remember: 90% of all addons where based on ACE or librock libraries and where all hosted on wowace svn).

85% of all statistics are made up on the spot.

Quote:

And I still haven't seen an explaination on how FilePlanet can affort to host and offer several GB of traffic (where files are really big and generate some serious traffic unlike the tiny wow addons, mostly a few kb in size) for the same price you charge users for the premium service?

You must be doing sth terribly wrong as a company, if your traffic is like 1000x more expensive than the one FilePlanet uses

I'm not in a position to say how another company pays for anything. It's possible that they're not at a point of sustainability. It's possible that their economy of scales dictate different realities for them to face. I know I've had an account there off and on for 3 years, and I've used maybe every other wow patch.

Quote:

Once again: I never said Curse charges for addons, but they charge for a service which is related to addons and this is per se Blizzard UI policy not allowed neither.

If there was an issue here I'm pretty sure blizzard would tell us so. We're an official fansite. We have a open line of communication with blizzard. In the past anytime they've had concerns they've contacted us directly and we've always, and will continue, to work with them on any issues they have.

Re: Curse "Premium"

FISKER_Q — Wed, 06 May 2009 14:00:00 GMT

Quote:

Originally Posted by lamhir lamhir" src="/Themes/Common/v6/images/forums/btn-lastpost.gif"/>

Quote:
Originally Posted by FISKER_Q FISKER_Q" src="/Themes/Common/v6/images/forums/btn-lastpost.gif"/>

Does Curse require any form of monetary compensation in order to download or access an addon? No. They offer better service with monetary compensation, but that doesn't change the fact that you're not required to pay for access to addons.

Carbonite wasn't free, it was free with ad-support, and then it had a paid version.

So again, Curse does not charge for addons, nor do they require any form of payment to make you download the addon, this is why this policy is irrelevant, and why sites like Fileplanet, etc. can "charge for downloads".

Once again: I never said Curse charges for addons, but they charge for a service which is related to addons and this is per se Blizzard UI policy not allowed neither.

How is free Carbonite with ad-support any different than free Curse Client with limited features?

Both fall in same category, they want money from you for addons. Either to get rid of the adds or to update them at once. Both are related to addons or addons themselve.

Carbonite is an addon, Curse isn't.

The part you're quoting is to deal with, for example, selling data which is required for the addon to have any meaningful purpose, for example, addons like WoWEcon who charge a subscription fee for auction house data and so on, they're violating the UI policy because it's an service related to THE addon. The only part Curse has to worry about is this: "...or otherwise require some form of monetary compensation to download or access an add-on"

In any case, trying to selectively quote the policy won't change the fact that Curse isn't in violation of the policy, if they were, they would've been contacted by Blizzard ages ago.

Re: Curse "Premium"

lamhir — Wed, 06 May 2009 13:45:23 GMT

Quote:

Originally Posted by FISKER_Q FISKER_Q" src="/Themes/Common/v6/images/forums/btn-lastpost.gif"/>

Does Curse require any form of monetary compensation in order to download or access an addon? No. They offer better service with monetary compensation, but that doesn't change the fact that you're not required to pay for access to addons.

Carbonite wasn't free, it was free with ad-support, and then it had a paid version.

So again, Curse does not charge for addons, nor do they require any form of payment to make you download the addon, this is why this policy is irrelevant, and why sites like Fileplanet, etc. can "charge for downloads".

Once again: I never said Curse charges for addons, but they charge for a service which is related to addons and this is per se Blizzard UI policy not allowed neither.

How is free Carbonite with ad-support any different than free Curse Client with limited features?

Both fall in same category, they want money from you for addons. Either to get rid of the adds or to update them at once. Both are related to addons or addons themselve.

Re: Curse "Premium"

FISKER_Q — Wed, 06 May 2009 13:31:38 GMT

Quote:

Originally Posted by lamhir lamhir" src="/Themes/Common/v6/images/forums/btn-lastpost.gif"/>

Quote:
Originally Posted by FISKER_Q FISKER_Q" src="/Themes/Common/v6/images/forums/btn-lastpost.gif"/>

lamhir, no it's not, and being user generated content doesn't excuse copyright violations, infact the same could be applied to Curse, the fact remains, it's not violation of copyright because they ARE providing a free alternative, and the only thing you really pay for is for a better service.

Until you accept the fact that the UI policy doesn't apply, as it is not addon downloads you're being charged for but a premium service, which also includes faster downloads, then this discussion is over.

First on, you said it yourself: Premium membership is a service (which relates to WoW Addons). And now read the quoted passage from the UI policy again:

Quote:

1. Add-ons must be free of charge

All add-ons must be distributed free of charge. Developers may not create "premium" versions of add-ons with additional for-pay features, charge money to download an add-on, charge for services related to the add-on, or otherwise require some form of monetary compensation to download or access an add-on.

It clearely states: ...charge money to download an add-on, charge for services related to the add-on, or otherwise require some form of monetary compensation to download or access an add-on (Didn't you read the underlined part? monetary compensation to download or access addons. If you have to pay to update all addons at once, you are paying for download and/or access of these addons!).

Carbonite had a free version too. That just didn't excused that you had to pay for the premium version.

Does Curse require any form of monetary compensation in order to download or access an addon? No. They offer better service with monetary compensation, but that doesn't change the fact that you're not required to pay for access to addons.

Carbonite wasn't free, it was free with ad-support, and then it had a paid version.

So again, Curse does not charge for addons, nor do they require any form of payment to make you download the addon, this is why this policy is irrelevant, and why sites like Fileplanet, etc. can "charge for downloads".

Quote:

Originally Posted by lamhir lamhir" src="/Themes/Common/v6/images/forums/btn-lastpost.gif"/>

And I still haven't seen an explaination on how FilePlanet can affort to host and offer several GB of traffic (where files are really big and generate some serious traffic unlike the tiny wow addons, mostly a few kb in size) for the same price you charge users for the premium service?

You must be doing sth terribly wrong as a company, if your traffic is like 1000x more expensive than the one FilePlanet uses

Renting is more expensive than owning,

Re: Curse "Premium"

lamhir — Wed, 06 May 2009 13:12:47 GMT

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaelten Kaelten" src="/Themes/Common/v6/images/forums/btn-lastpost.gif"/>

Deciding if the price-point for premium is worth it is of course a personal decision, and one that neither I nor anyone else has the reason to chose for anyone other than themselves.

@Weirdo, what your #'s there show me is that Curse's selection best suites your needs, that does not make us a monopoly or monopolistic. What you've told me is that we carry more of your favorite 'brands' of addons than anyone else. Just because my favorite brand of jeans can only be found at one store doesn't make said store a monopoly. It is, however, very normal, especially for Americans (I'm American, not asserting that you are really), to call anyone who's done their job well enough a monopoly. So thank you for the compliment.

Yea, but the reason for this is the reason i stated above. Like 90% of all current WoW addons are based on either Ace/Ace2/Ace3 or LibRock libraries. Both brought into the live from the same person: ckknight, the person who first started ACE/Wowace. Due to the fact, that all addons based on this two libraries where originally hosted on wowace SVN server made wowace a virtual monopoly on wow addons. It was fine, while wowace was independed to have all your addons gathered in one place (while some of this addons where mirrored on other addon sites, most of them remained only available on wowace). They all were available either via the website (wowace.com/files) or via SVN (later also via WAU).

Until you (Curse) took it over. It was a great step back, as you wasn't able to synchronize your addons yourself directly from SVN anymore. Everyone made customized their own addons, was fucked up without the posibility to synch/update the addons via SVN anymore. In my guild I did adjustments to the BigWigs for example, to add new stuff for boss tries until the original mods get this features/casts/timers added. Or did some adjustments to some other addons (like cartographers cia/kgb like spy features which let everyone in your guild know where you are).

Let us go a step further. Until you took over wowace, Curse's amount of addons was very bad too (like all other remaining addonsites too atm). By taking over wowace curse got a virtual monopoly on the addons (we remember: 90% of all addons where based on ACE or librock libraries and where all hosted on wowace svn).

However, while losing the ability to synchronize your addons directly via SVN was a big set-back, we still at least had the option to comfortably update the addons (even though customizations were impossible now or were tied together with a much increase effort of modifying them yourself after each update). But charging money for this really beat it up.

And I still haven't seen an explaination on how FilePlanet can affort to host and offer several GB of traffic (where files are really big and generate some serious traffic unlike the tiny wow addons, mostly a few kb in size) for the same price you charge users for the premium service?

You must be doing sth terribly wrong as a company, if your traffic is like 1000x more expensive than the one FilePlanet uses